Bones don't scale in proportion to the character

[zzzmoon]

I rigged a character on frame 0, then on a later frame I want to scale him up with all his bones. I've tried scaling the bones layer and I've also tried scaling the character group layer.... the bones don't scale and position in sync with the character. I'd have to reposition all the bones. When I try scaling the character group layer, it doesn't scale the bones. I have flexi-binding between each bone and a layer, they seem to manipulate the character right. What am I doing wrong?
Thanks!

[Greenlaw]

Can you post some pics?

Normally, scaling the bones layer or a group that holds all the bones and artwork (my preference) should do the trick, assuming the art layers are properly bound to the bones.

It sounds like you might have some errant keyframes either in the mainline or in a smart bone action, but without seeing the scene or any screen caps, that's a blind guess.

Also, before you scale a layer or group, check where the origin is. For a character, you would normally want to position the origin at the character's feet or center of gravity, depending on how you've set up the rig and how you intend to animate it.

[zzzmoon]

I'll try those things, thanks!

[zzzmoon]

I tried putting the character and bones layers in a group layer and scaling that, but the same thing happened. I have before and after scaling pics, but don't see a way to attach them to this post.....???

[Greenlaw]

Just use the Upload To TinyPic tab below the Post A Reply window. It even lets you embed the images to your post. Post the pics but, if possible, it would be more useful to post the scene file.

It sounds like you have something unusual going on in you're scene. Scaling a Group containing a rig or the bones layer directly doesn't normally affect the position of bones because all the bones are relative to the layer's origin.

[zzzmoon]

Maybe it's because the character isn't at 0 on the x,y,z axes?

I've been trying to upload pics and the file to TinyPic for the last 5 minutes.... nothing happens when I try to add uploaded files to my post, and now it says the service is unavailable. Every time I fling myself at Moho it flings me back... After Effects is so much easier...

[Greenlaw]

Maybe it's because the character isn't at 0 on the x,y,z axes?

I've been trying to upload pics and the file to TinyPic for the last 5 minutes.... nothing happens when I try to add uploaded files to my post, and now it says the service is unavailable. Every time I fling myself at Moho it flings me back... After Effects is so much easier...

That shouldn't matter. All the elements will scale equally from wherever the layer's origin is--they shouldn't scale individually.

Normally, I'm not even sure how that can happen--I'm guessing you're doing something unusual in your setup. It really would be easier if you uploaded an example scene because all anybody can do is guess at what's going on in your setup. You could just dropbox it.

You're right, TinyPic does appear to be down...I'm seeing the error too. That's unusual. Hopefully it will be back up soon. In the meantime, if you get dropbox going, you could just link an image from there too.

Good luck.

[zzzmoon]

Ok, I uploaded before and after pics, and the scene file, to Dropbox.
Here's the link:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qtsw183dlgbo ... bvzua?dl=0

Thanks if you can help !

[Greenlaw]

Sure, will be happy to take look at lunchtime.

Regarding Moho vs. After Effects, I'm not sure that's a fair comparison; they are very different programs designed for different purposes.

IMO, it depends on what you want to do with the programs. We use Moho with AE everyday but a while back we used AE with DuIK for characters on a production. (AE by itself is not really a character animation program.) In my experience the AE-DuIK system works well for simpler characters but it's not nearly as robust as Moho for more complex characters and animations. When you start working with multiple characters with hundreds of layers, the comp becomes awkward and impractical to animate in, not to mention really slow.

We still use AE for final compositing and FX work of course. In these areas, AE excels and has many advantages over Moho.

To me, it's a matter of using the more appropriate tool for a given task.

[zzzmoon]

I know what you mean about After Effects, I've used that with Duik for character animation also, and I bought Moho because I think it's better for animation per se. But still, I think the learning curve is steeper than AE or Flash, which is what I was using for animation.

I don't want to whine and complain though! Yesterday I was worn out after trying to figure out how to do simple things I knew I could have breezed through with the other software. I was tempted to start over in AE, but am telling myself to keep plowing through Moho.

[Greenlaw]

Here's the problem:



Using the Orbit tool I rotated the scene in 3D space and this revealed that your character's images are positioned far from the skeleton in z-space. The images are actually scaling exactly with the bones as they should, but they appear to move separately in your scene because they are farther away from the camera than the bones are.

To fix this, go to frame 0, select the layer called PILL, and then select the Transform Layer tool. Notice you have a value of -0.7558 in Z. This is pushing the bones far away from the artwork. Replace the value with 0 and the art should 'snap' back in place.

I think that should fix things but, FYI, normally you will want the bones layer to be at 0,0,0 and position your bones to the artwork or vice versa at the setup frame.

My guess is that you probably started 'animating' at frame zero. I'm sure you know this already but frame zero is reserved as the setup frame and you should start your animation at frame 1. Tip: In Preferences under Timeline, enable Highlight Frame 0. This puts a red box around the workspace when you're at frame 0 which can help remind you not to 'animate' anything when you're on this frame.

[zzzmoon]

Thanks so much for taking the time to look at this and help me out! I'll work on this tomorrow. I'm still hazy on a lot of the idiosyncrasies of Moho....
What you said makes perfect sense