Can't delete keyframes sometimes

[Jkoseattle]

Why is it I can't delete keyframes sometimes? It seems like there's some valid reason, but I can't figure it out. Moho should tell me why nothing happens when I select some keyframes and hit Delete.

[Greenlaw]

Can you post an example?

I don't normally have a problem with not being able to delete a key.

One case I can think of is when I have 'Enable Drawing Tools Only At Frame 0' disabled and I create a point on a later frame. This creates a number of keys for channels like Point Color and Point Color Strength, and if I select them all and try to delete them, it fails. If I mess with the timeline enough, I can eventually get rid of them, but I'm not exactly sure what the steps are. It's kind of annoying so I just avoid creating points beyond 0 unless I really have to.

I can't think of another instance though. Maybe when it's a conflict related to an action? I seem recall running in a problem like that.

Normally, it's not a problem though.

[Greenlaw]

I did a quick test now to confirm what I wrote above about creating a point after 0. If I copy all the keys where the new point was created to frame 0, then I'm able to delete the keys. It's an unusual situation for me but I guess that would be the fix for it.

Just wondering if that works for the problem you're seeing.

[Jkoseattle]

What ---!!?? There's an 'Enable Drawing Tools Only At Frame 0' option? I could definitely use that. Hunting that down now...

I'll post an example when I run across it. Happens to me a lot. I figured it wasn't a bug or anything, but something I didn't understand as to why I'm not ALLOWED to delete said keyframe.

[Greenlaw]

Just to be clear, I normally have that option enabled. Leaving it off makes it too easy to mess up your scene and animations. If you disable it, you should have a good reason for it and remain aware that it's off.

It should be on by default, btw.

[Jkoseattle]

Yeah, I figured that out. There should be a "Disable everything that's going to get you in Big Trouble if you're not at frame 0" option. Actually, as I mentioned in a previous feature request, the whole idea of frame 0 and frame 1 is ridiculous. Frame 0 is NOT A FRAME, it's a set up place. Calling it frame 0 is like saying the auditions, casting, rehearsal, costume fitting, rewrites, set building, promotion, production meetings, and ordering of Mentos packages for the concession stand are all considered "Dress Rehearsal".

Just sayin'...

[Greenlaw]

I agree, I sometimes think 'setup' should exist outside of the timeline--although using frame zero as the 'setup' frame is fairly standard in a lot of 2D and 3D animation packages. At least in the programs I use at work.

If it helps, make sure Highlight Frame 0 is enabled. This puts a red box around the workspace to let you know your on the setup frame. Also, get used to using the Design Mode shortcut (Ctrl-Shift-D). This toggle sends you to the setup frame where you can make adjustments, and can send you back to the frame you came from when you're done.

One thing I wish I could do in Moho is see frames before frame 0, which I can in other programs. This is useful when: 1.) you need pre-roll for certain physical effects like dynamics and particles, and 2.) when you accidentally 'lose' keyframes there, which can cause odd problems upstream in the timeline.

FWIW, after a while, I find I get used to the little quirks in each program I use and I develop habits that keep me from doing annoying things.

[synthsin75]

There are some advanced techniques, like turning Maximum IK stretching into squashing, that require copying keyframes from another frame to frame zero. If the setup didn't exist on the timeline, it might be more confusing (or even impossible) to do things like that.

[Greenlaw]

If the setup didn't exist on the timeline, it might be more confusing (or even impossible) to do things like that.

Yeah, I don't disagree with that either...it's probably why zero for setup is usually the standard in many animation programs.

@JkoSeattle, if it's not already on, make sure Enable Drawing Only At Zero is on. As I mentioned earlier, I normally have this enabled, and I switch it off only in unusual situations and then turn it back on when I'm done with that. Not having it on will probably hose your scene with unwanted keyframes sooner or later.

Another thing to watch out for: When you're editing a Smart Bone action, be sure you're actually in the action; otherwise you might litter the Mainline with unwanted keyframes. This sometimes happens to me where I'll be in an action but then I'll somehow jump out of the action without realizing it and keyframe the mainline instead. (Probably hitting a hotkey by accident or otherwise triggering Moho to switch to the Mainline.) I don't know how to prevent that other than really paying attention to what I'm doing. Fortunately, I do this a lot less than when I started using Moho a few years ago, but it still trips me up occasionally. (I did it this morning in fact.)

Also, do a lot of incremental saves to be safe of course.