Target Bones and Cycles

[Mansac]

Hello,
i'm working on building myself a small action library for future use - like different cycles: walks, runs, etc -, using Target Bones to control the feet. I looped each animation using cycles, all working perfectly separately. But when I tried to sequence a couple - say, walk for a bit then run, the trouble started.

The problem is that, as soon a keyframe is set on Bone Target further in the timeline on a cycling character (I mean, like 2 or 3 cycles runs away), the cycle just stops working at all for the Targets - although it was running perfectly for "eternity" beforehand.

Am I missing something, or Target Bones just do not cycle in the same way as the regular dimensional keys?

Thanks for your wisdom

[Víctor Paredes]

I have some theories about what could be happening, but I'm not sure I'm understanding the problem.
Could you share your file or a video showing the issue?

Thanks.

[synthsin75]

Yeah, from my understanding of the problem, I'm not seeing it here.

[Mansac]

Hi Victor, hi synthsin75,


You can find a video and a file here: https://we.tl/H0EoJlVxId

Thanks for your help!

[chucky]

Great looking rig!

The problem is that there are a couple of keyframes missing at the beginning of the action cycle.

Just freeze the pose on frame 2.
The reason is as I guess you've already seen is that the leading frame before the cycle is not the same , when following the other loop.
The new keys will bake that position in rather than being a straight interpolation from frame 1.
Easys

[Mansac]

Thanks a lot Chucky!

...unfortunately it has the same behaviour, even if I freeze all frames!... (had tried that before)

Of course one could work around quitting targeting bones altogether, but I think it's a great way to rig, and to animate faster. With this cycling issue solved, the workflow...well... will flow a lot better.

Cheers

[chucky]

Thanks a lot Chucky!

...unfortunately it has the same behaviour, even if I freeze all frames!... (had tried that before)

Of course one could work around quitting targeting bones altogether, but I think it's a great way to rig, and to animate faster. With this cycling issue solved, the workflow...well... will flow a lot better.

Cheers

Are you sure, I did try it on your file and it work fine, freeze frame 2 ! The targets worked great , cycling nicely even in the referenced action.

Look cycles are great and all , but I prefer Mike Kelley's Swiss Army Bones script. Find it here....http://animatorsforum.com/ You won't look back, stick with the target's too don't freakout.

[Mansac]

I'm positive.

It cycles in perfection, frozen poses or not - if the timeline is clear after the cycling frames.
If I set a keyframe on "Selected Bone Target" for the targeted bones somewhere in the timeline (past the cycle keyframes), it stops cycling...


thanks for the tip, I'll have a look

[hayasidist]

If I set a keyframe on "Selected Bone Target" for the targeted bones somewhere in the timeline (past the cycle keyframes), it stops cycling...

that's what it's meant to do! -- if you have something that's keyed in a cycle (referenced action or not) then you put another key in the timeline after the cycle, it stops the cycle for just the keyed item -- but anything else cycled will carry on until that's keyed too. so you could, e.g. stop the root bone translation but keep the legs moving to change the gait until you later stop the legs moving one at a time...

(nice rig BTW!)

[Mansac]

that's what it's meant to do! -- if you have something that's keyed in a cycle (referenced action or not) then you put another key in the timeline after the cycle, it stops the cycle for just the keyed item -- but anything else cycled will carry on until that's keyed too. so you could, e.g. stop the root bone translation but keep the legs moving to change the gait until you later stop the legs moving one at a time...

(nice rig BTW!)

Thanks hayasidist

That is not the problem. The thing is that the Target Bone cycle breaks altogether. It stops cycling before the new keyframe. After that, of course, it assumes the new value, as suposed. It should be cycling until it reached the new keyframe though, but is not. That's visible in the "Legs 2" or "Legs 3" example in the video.
Why, I have no clue.

[chucky]

[synthsin75]

That is not the problem. The thing is that the Target Bone cycle breaks altogether. It stops cycling before the new keyframe. After that, of course, it assumes the new value, as suposed. It should be cycling until it reached the new keyframe though, but is not. That's visible in the "Legs 2" or "Legs 3" example in the video.
Why, I have no clue.

I'm seeing this too...on your file. Haven't had time to troubleshoot it properly yet, but does appear to be a bug so far.

[chucky]

I saw it too but it was gone when I added keys @ f2.
I only checked the referenced action layers though, after fixing the actions

[Mansac]

I tried to do the same animation in the former version (AnimeStudioPro11), and the result is exactly the same. If it is a bug, it has lingered to the present (Moho 12)

[chucky]

I've not seen the 'bug' but it's beside the point really if you use that script I pointed you too. you will find it far more useful than cycles, for so many reasons. My characters don't leave home without it.
mk-swissarmybones..... I forget exactly , but follow the link above and look for that topic, all will become clear.