Frame 0 should be linear by default

[JoelMayer]

I think it would be good if all keys on frame 0 would be linear. Linear should imo be the default anyway, not smooth. I don't want the software to apply any easing without me explicitly telling it so.

But especially on frame 0 it's more sensible since whenever we set up smart bones we usually put everything on linear as well so we don't apply easing upon easing when animating.

Thank you.

[synthsin75]

I agree. Even if you make a template file, with all frame zero keyframes set to linear, you then have to duplicate layers, instead of new layer, so you keep the linear keys.

I submitted an improvement request.

[JoelMayer]

I agree. Even if you make a template file, with all frame zero keyframes set to linear, you then have to duplicate layers, instead of new layer, so you keep the linear keys.

I submitted an improvement request.

Thank you Wes

[lucasfranca]

In fact, it would be interesting to be able to mark the pattern by starting a new file, be it linear or smooth, as well as the intervals setting. I like whenever it is 2 but I have to change whenever I create something new. We have many sets as standard, but these are missing and are very useful!

[Greenlaw]

Oh, no...for me, I need it to be Smooth. Smooth is what I typically use as a default for nearly all my animations, not Linear. If I need a channel to have a different default, like Linear or Step, then I set frame 0 channel for this manually. It's no biggie since I need this only occasionally.

Where I typically need a frame to be set Linear is frame 1 of a Smart Bone Action. I'm doing this constantly, so it's a small nusiance, but, again it's not a huge deal. If this was a default, it might mess me up in another way.

I guess it could be good if there was a global option for users who really need their default Interpolation at frame 0 to be Linear. But Linear at frame 0 would make me nuts if this was a forced on me.

[Greenlaw]

I recall back when Moho's future was up in the air, I explored switching to Reallusion's Cartoon animator. At the time, in CA, Linear was default for every channel, and I had to change it FOR EVERY CHANNEL and EVERY FREAKING KEYFRAME. Linear was fine for mocap, where every channel is keyframed anyway, and to be fair, mocap animation was the focus of the program, but it was horrible for anyone who wanted to hand-keyframe everything. So, I went back to Moho 12.5 and decided I would just keep using it until it died. Fortunately, this was NOT the fate of Moho.

I don't know if Linear is still a fixed default for Cartoon Animator, as that was several years ago, but I just wanted to stress why I strongly object to this idea.

By the way, Smooth isn't necessarily easing all the time. What Smooth does is it continues the trajectory from one side of a keyframe to the other, so the shape of the curve can vary from keyframe to keyframe. This is why it works so well in many situations, especially when the motion needs to look organic. Linear is constant until it changes, so it tends to look mechnanical. (Like old-school Tron light cycle motions.)

[JoelMayer]

Yea can make it a setting. Or just have all keyframes visible on 0 by default whether you're in a smart-action or not then everybody can do what they want.

I ALWAYS use linear or step. Since i rarely use the Mograph Editor 'cause it ain't all that good, i do my easing manually and linear gives me maximum control over that. More like the Toon Boom workflow tbh. The less computer tweens the better. So stuff doesn't REALLY stay on linear, i just use linear keys to break stuff down, make ease ins and outs etc. Using smooth everywhere leads to floaty animation i find. If i have to go fast then yea. But that's a matter of taste. I don't like having keys where i don't see exactly what they're doing and smooth can end up being a black box. The only time i use smooth is when it's broad motion or for the camera or when it's like some trajectory thing where i know it has to smoothly change direction.

I'm not suggesting this is the "right" or "only" way to do it but just to illustrate that we all have different methods and philosophies and smooth on frame 0 can lead to trouble in a lot of cases.

But the main thing for me asking for this is when it comes to set up Smartbones. And in EVERY tutorial you watch, all the people always gotta go through everything manually to set it to linear including mine. So yea, imo, frame 0 keys should be on somehow be adjustable to linear and then you can set a smooth key on 1. How this is implemented can be up for discussion but yea, imo, would make things a lot simpler 'cause i constantly run into issues where one little thing is still on smooth in a smartbone and then i have to troubleshoot because i suddenly have unwanted overlap or drag.

And about small nuisances: those can add up pretty quickly…

[Greenlaw]

But the main thing for me asking for this is when it comes to set up Smartbones. And in EVERY tutorial you watch, all the people always gotta go through everything manually to set it to linear including mine.

Except me, I guess.

When setting up a Smart Bone Action, I set frame 1 to Linear and leave frame 0 open to be whatever it needs to be for the Mainline. For me, frame 0 is typically Step (for layout or non-linear Switch controls) or Smooth (most animations.) And I only use Bezier when Smooth isn't quite cutting it for me. But most of the time (nearly all of the time,) I need and want frame 0 to be Smooth.

In rare cases, I'll use Linear. I really only use linear for constant-speed animations, like a panning background or when setting up a Smart Bone Action. But for Smart Bone Actions, that starts at frame 1, not 0.

Inside the Smart Bone Action, if I don't set frame 1 to be Linear, and instead set frame 0 to Linear, that means the default for the Mainline will be Linear...which is what I don't want because it means I'll constantly be changing frame 1 on the Mainline to be Smooth or Step. That's adding extra work for me.

Also, not setting frame 1 inside the Smart Bone leaves it open to get broken if frame 0 gets changed while animating on the Mainline.

I don't think what I'm doing with Smart Bones is unusual...and it has worked very well for me and other Moho animators I've worked with. I'll make a tutorial about how I set up Smart Bone Actions later this year...I think it will be easier to show this in action, than describing it here in text.

To me, the current system is much easier, has worked great for the 10 years I've been using Moho in production, and I'd hate for it to suddenly change.

But I sort of agree about the visibility of frame 0 in a channel with no keyframes. Sometimes, I wish to see a channel's frame 0 to set it to something else preemptively. I don't need to see it ALL the time, but sometimes I want to take a quick peek...so maybe it would be nice if there was a toggle button for this? Dunno.... I'm just thinking out loud now.

Anyway, yes, this is a good discussion!

[doodleDaze]

For 0 frame key visibility we can set the channels we want visible in the timeline channels settings to plus (even without keys frame 0 shows the keys)

[Greenlaw]

Yes, that's true, but sometimes I just want to take a quick peek at frame 0 and move on.

What I normally do now is click in the middle of the Timeline to set a keyframe which reveals frame 0. Then, if necessary, I'll change the interpolation for frame 0. Finally, I'll delete the non-0 keyframe.

IMO, this is much quicker than opening the Timeline Channels Settings window, changing the settings, closing the window, reviewing frame 0 and making any needed changes, then going back to Timeline Channels to change it back.

The need to unhide the hidden frame 0 comes up from time to time during the rigging/testing stage, but, TBH, it hasn't been a big deal for me.

[BigBoiiiJones]

I think it should be an option we can save. Why can't we save it to smooth, linear, or step? I personally prefer linear since I usually plan my main keys in advance and know when I want to have ease ins/outs and MR Tween Machine helps significantly with that.