vector animation + binding points = weird result

grosbouff · Post by **grosbouff** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:42 pm

Hi, I'm trying to make a "full vector" animation with Anime Studio.
It's the first time I play with binding points, etc etc; it seems very impressive but I got some strange things :
look at this :

As you can see; the deformations of the pants are kind of weird but it's ok for me; it could be nice once it will be animated.
But the other strange thing is that the shoes is "going away" from the pants, and I would like it to stick to the pants. What's wrong in my rig ?

+ the bones often go "out of the shapes"; why ? Maybe not enough points in my vector drawings ?

Here's the file if you would like to have a look at it.

Thanks !

Benoît

Genete · Post by **Genete** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:53 pm

Please check that you haven't checked the Flexible Binding option in the Bone layer. It seems that you have bind the points of the shoe to the shoe bones so it is overriding the flexible binding.
If you change the flexible binding to Region binding then the leg would follow the bone.
Otherwise if you want the look of the current leg nd want the shoe follow the leg, then select the points of the shoe and make them FlexiBind points by the Bone menu entry.

-G

mkelley · Post by **mkelley** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:05 pm

Yeah, Genete is right -- you've left checked "Flexible Binding" which is almost never used. Now, when I change your primary bone layer to Region it works fine... for that leg.

The other leg is then a definite problem, and it's because you actually have too MANY points in that leg, not too few. In reality, trying to bend a limb is much better served with as few as points as possible -- I try to construct my legs, for example, with no more than eight points total (excluding feet).

Sometimes you have to bend or break this rule, but for that simple leg you just need to remove 6 or eight points and it will work MUCH better.

grosbouff · Post by **grosbouff** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:06 pm

You were right; I had flexible binding.
I still didn't understand what's the difference between flexible and region binding...
I thought region binding was for images and flexible binding for vectors...
Is it wrong ?

Anyway, the shoe is ok in region binding but the other elements looks like crap once animated.

What are Flexbind points ? Can you tell me more about that ?

Anime Studio really needs a wiki....

Thanks !

mkelley · Post by **mkelley** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:09 pm

Oh, and there are other problems. You've constructed your legs minus the feet in order to keep them separate, which is good, but then you've gone and constructed the legs attached to the torso, which doesn't work so well (as least IMHO).

When that forward leg bends the base and pelvic bones will try and distort it. You can fix this in a wide variety of ways, but assigning points to bones will help. Or you can simply construct the legs "away" from the body, much as you did with the feet, and then just move them into position. Or a combination of the two techniques.

I fixed your file (at least the way I'd do it) but my own site is down right now and I can't upload it there. But I think if you try and follow what I'm saying you'll see how that works -- for this character there isn't any need for the torso bones to bend the leg in any way, so I'd just construct it out separately.

mkelley · Post by **mkelley** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:21 pm

I don't want to get in Genete's way, but I'll mention binding points to bones and then stay out of this.

If you go to the vector layer (on frame 0) and select a bone (using the B key) you can then bind individual points to that bone using the I key and then the normal point selection tools. When you are done press Space and this will bind those specific points to that bone.

This is very useful in terms of "holding" certain points to a place, or having things move precisely where you want them to. This will combine with Region binding to allow you to accomplish almost anything you want.

grosbouff · Post by **grosbouff** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:14 pm

Your comments are really interesting me !!!

I would be glad to get more tips about how you do your rigs.
Genete's, I would be glad to see your file. You can send it to me at

7akg6pl95hr1551@jetable.net.

Anime Studio DEFINITELY needs a wiki !

Is there topics where I could find more useful informations about all this ?

Some more questions :

-Is there a way to see which points are binded with a bone ?
-Can a single point be binded to several bones or is it bond to the last one binded ?
-What is the difference between binding a point and including that point in the "bone strenght" zone ?

I'm using Anime Studio since some weeks; I'm starting to know it well but there are some concepts that are hard to understand totally...

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:55 pm

If you've already worked through the tutorials in the help, you may want to review them again. They cover the difference between region and flexible bones very well.

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:37 am

grosbouff wrote:-Is there a way to see which points are binded with a bone ?

Select the vector layer the points are on. Now with the Bone tool (B) click the bone, and all points bound to it via Region binding will show.

The other binding methods cannot be shown since they affect all points or a whole layer. Unfortunately you can't get a hint from the Bone menu, options like Release Layer are visible even if no Layer binding was done.

-Can a single point be binded to several bones or is it bond to the last one binded ?

One point can only bound to one bone, if bound via Region binding. The default flexible binding connects every point to all bones in different amounts, as defined by the different bone strengths and distances.

-What is the difference between binding a point and including that point in the "bone strenght" zone ?

Placing a vector layer inside a bone layer without doing anything else automatically binds every point to every bone, as I just wrote. Only if you choose region binding or layer binding you tell AS to let a portion or all of the vector layer be ruled by just one bone. The effect is that this portion of points or this layer appears completely rigid when moved.

grosbouff · Post by **grosbouff** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:51 pm

Thanks everybody !

Some more questions :

When the shapes overlaps; is there a way to "fill" the overlapping area rather than to substract it ?

I would like to draw stripes on the man's shirt.
But if I do it; it will add more points and the way the body curves will change, no ?
How could I do this ?

Genete · Post by **Genete** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:52 pm

grosbouff wrote:Your comments are really interesting me !!!

I would be glad to get more tips about how you do your rigs.
Genete's, I would be glad to see your file. You can send it to me at

7akg6pl95hr1551@jetable.net.

Anime Studio DEFINITELY needs a wiki !

Is there topics where I could find more useful informations about all this ?

Some more questions :

-Is there a way to see which points are binded with a bone ?
-Can a single point be binded to several bones or is it bond to the last one binded ?
-What is the difference between binding a point and including that point in the "bone strenght" zone ?

I'm using Anime Studio since some weeks; I'm starting to know it well but there are some concepts that are hard to understand totally...

2

To see what are the binding of the points you can use the scritp buttons I created some time ago. Look to my signature and serch in the "My scripts in the forum link" for TOGGLE SELECTION OF POINTS BASED ON ITS BINDING VALUES. Those script buttons are really handy to know what's the current state of any point under a bone structure.
Create a simple bone structure (two bones) and several points around. Using the proposed script buttons discover which are the binging values of the points. Then change them using the Bone menu and changing the Bone layer settings dialog. You'll understand it quickly.

Regarding to your request to me to fix your file I think that you'll learn much more fighting with it by yourself.

Good luck
-G

See this old thread: viewtopic.php?t=7337&start=0&postdays=0 ... =bone+bind

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:58 pm

The arm is one single shape, not two shapes, and that causes the problem. Any shape looped in itself will show this behavior (in any vector program). Create the arm again in 2 separate shapes, slightly overlapping.

If you create additional lines, they will not affect anything which already was created before.

Genete · Post by **Genete** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:27 pm

slowtiger wrote:The arm is one single shape, not two shapes, and that causes the problem. Any shape looped in itself will show this behavior (in any vector program). Create the arm again in 2 separate shapes, slightly overlapping.

If you create additional lines, they will not affect anything which already was created before.

Not any vector program. In Synfig for example, the user can decide the winding style of the shapes so they can be non zero or even/odd depending on how many times the shape overlaps. I'm sure that other vector applications have the same option.
-G

mkelley · Post by **mkelley** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:38 pm

Let's not confuse him by giving him erroneous information.

The arm behavior you describe can be solved with a single shape, if you use bones to control the points properly. There is a terrific rig that Vern came up with that almost completely solves these issues. Essentially what you do is assign the troublesome point (which is bending back onto itself) to a control bone which keeps it under control.

If you send me a private message with your email address I'll send you Vern's rig along with a sample of how it works. That's all you really need to use to fix all arm/leg issues (and you can copy the rig and place it anywhere you want, so a complete understanding of how it works isn't really necessary).