For sure....I have proposed that they make it an open project to the forum and just have a final post, rendering ad editing suite at their end
Cheers
D.K
Anime Studio Quality
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
regardless of what software they choose-they should be able to get a site license sort of discount. Usually, five or more 'seats' has a BIG discount kick in. It's not realistic to look at retail costs for one when there's an intent to purchase more than one.
Of course, a good producer should know that anyway.
Of course, a good producer should know that anyway.
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synthsin75
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Okay... I had originally planned to post some kind of review comparing TBS to ASP... I downloaded the TBS demo...
It won't run. It crashes after the first screen when creating a project. So... there you go. I'm definately not a customer.
I LOVE simple applications. AS is a SIMPLE application. It just works. It loads fast, it has simple file formats. It isn't bloated with different file types and complex file format structures (TBS has 6 file different file formats). According to the description of the various file formats for TBS, they have a separate file format for "drawing" types that is stored INSIDE another file type for the project. This would be like having a file format in AS just for vector layers that is different from the AS file itself.
I like the AS file format. The ascii file format lends itself to small file sizes that can be zipped to even smaller sizes. Files that are easy to transfer through the web, easy to incorporate into open source asset management databases etc.
All files can be corrupted... the fact that AS files can be repaired using note pad is a huge bonus.
-vern
It won't run. It crashes after the first screen when creating a project. So... there you go. I'm definately not a customer.
I LOVE simple applications. AS is a SIMPLE application. It just works. It loads fast, it has simple file formats. It isn't bloated with different file types and complex file format structures (TBS has 6 file different file formats). According to the description of the various file formats for TBS, they have a separate file format for "drawing" types that is stored INSIDE another file type for the project. This would be like having a file format in AS just for vector layers that is different from the AS file itself.
I like the AS file format. The ascii file format lends itself to small file sizes that can be zipped to even smaller sizes. Files that are easy to transfer through the web, easy to incorporate into open source asset management databases etc.
All files can be corrupted... the fact that AS files can be repaired using note pad is a huge bonus.
-vern
Is it even viable to set up a frame-by-frame animation studio in Australia? Do any exist at the moment? I think you need to explain to them that's what Toon Boom is designed for, and Anime Studio offers a more efficient approach. If they do end up going with Anime Studio, will they offer you or Chucky a job? By the way, are you allowed to say who this cartoonist is, as I live in Australia and am curious as to whether I've heard of him.DK wrote:In thinking about this, why in the world would a producer choose the tools of the animators? Why not just hire some people and get what they need to do the job? It's all based on what the 'crew' can do anyway.
They are wanting to set up a studio so basically do it all in house.
D.K
Hi
I would prefer not to say who it is on the forum. If you would like to know please pm me and I'd be glad to tell you. You certainly would have seen his work.
I did explain tha ToonBoom was more frame based. I have a couple of older review copies of it here from when I wrote for magazines so I know the software well.
They have a contact here in Aus who is making an animated series for Disney and he is using TB. I think I mentioned that further back in the thread somewhere.
Cheers
D.K
I would prefer not to say who it is on the forum. If you would like to know please pm me and I'd be glad to tell you. You certainly would have seen his work.
I did explain tha ToonBoom was more frame based. I have a couple of older review copies of it here from when I wrote for magazines so I know the software well.
They have a contact here in Aus who is making an animated series for Disney and he is using TB. I think I mentioned that further back in the thread somewhere.
Cheers
D.K
So, did they end up with ASP?
I'm currently working on a job that would benefit from 5-10 licenses of Anime Studio (Pro). I put in a purchase request. The production manager got back to me that we weren't going to be using ASP. Seems Smith Micro can't deal with a site license, there's no support available, etc. Basically, it's not "Professional", and they don't want to deal with it. We're still having 'discussions'.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with most of his points. A month or two ago, I got a survey from Smith Micro about AS. One of the questions was how it was purchased. Among the answers: Grandparent purchased for me. None of the options had anything to do with 'professional' use. I pointed that out (to SmithMicro).
I'm currently working on a job that would benefit from 5-10 licenses of Anime Studio (Pro). I put in a purchase request. The production manager got back to me that we weren't going to be using ASP. Seems Smith Micro can't deal with a site license, there's no support available, etc. Basically, it's not "Professional", and they don't want to deal with it. We're still having 'discussions'.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with most of his points. A month or two ago, I got a survey from Smith Micro about AS. One of the questions was how it was purchased. Among the answers: Grandparent purchased for me. None of the options had anything to do with 'professional' use. I pointed that out (to SmithMicro).
DM,
That production manager is an idiot -- but the world is full of them.
He's an idiot because:
1) So what if there's no site license? The cost of ASP is far cheaper than any site license of any decent software anyway. Why does that matter? (see below)
2) Support available? Packages that are difficult to use (hint: ToonBoom) need armies of support folks to help you actually get it to do something. Anyone who's used AS for, oh, a month or so, will know far more than any support staff SM could possible cobble together. It's a straw man.
Quite honestly, the PM sounds like he hasn't a clue about actually doing the work -- he's the classic "cover your ass" type manager who just wants to be sure he's using an "industry standard".
Used to see these guys all the time -- in our shops the saying was "no one ever got fired for buying IBM" (actually, "Big Blue"). That was the reason it took so long for other personal computers to make inroads into shops that had mainframes or minis -- it wasn't that the offerings from Gateway or Dell were inferior (they were always superior in terms of price/performance) it was just that no one wanted to take a chance so they kept buying IBM. Guess what? The people that DID take a chance actually got promoted for doing the Right Thing (as opposed to the Safe Thing). Then again, they actually had some brains (present company included -- I didn't get to where I am today by playing it safe).
So -- yeah, SM probably will always stay small in terms of market and you know what? I'm kinda glad. If getting to be a major player means you have to make $$$$ software that's so frickin' convoluted to use (like TB) you need support staff to help, then by all means AS had better stay the way it is. Just like I like it <bg>.
That production manager is an idiot -- but the world is full of them.
He's an idiot because:
1) So what if there's no site license? The cost of ASP is far cheaper than any site license of any decent software anyway. Why does that matter? (see below)
2) Support available? Packages that are difficult to use (hint: ToonBoom) need armies of support folks to help you actually get it to do something. Anyone who's used AS for, oh, a month or so, will know far more than any support staff SM could possible cobble together. It's a straw man.
Quite honestly, the PM sounds like he hasn't a clue about actually doing the work -- he's the classic "cover your ass" type manager who just wants to be sure he's using an "industry standard".
Used to see these guys all the time -- in our shops the saying was "no one ever got fired for buying IBM" (actually, "Big Blue"). That was the reason it took so long for other personal computers to make inroads into shops that had mainframes or minis -- it wasn't that the offerings from Gateway or Dell were inferior (they were always superior in terms of price/performance) it was just that no one wanted to take a chance so they kept buying IBM. Guess what? The people that DID take a chance actually got promoted for doing the Right Thing (as opposed to the Safe Thing). Then again, they actually had some brains (present company included -- I didn't get to where I am today by playing it safe).
So -- yeah, SM probably will always stay small in terms of market and you know what? I'm kinda glad. If getting to be a major player means you have to make $$$$ software that's so frickin' convoluted to use (like TB) you need support staff to help, then by all means AS had better stay the way it is. Just like I like it <bg>.
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InfoCentral
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Freakish Kid
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Hi Guys,
Thought i'd pipe up...
Actually, i'm not sure whether we'd use AS for major series work. A small team of people can handle it but it may be a logistical nightmare to run a massive production on it. It was when we did La Reine Soleil.
I really want to help this software grow and become a big player, what I'd really like to do is work with Smith Micro and develop the software for production use.
I don't mean change the way the software works, its great as is but there are a few problems with the infrastructure. Mainly Data Base and filing. I can't tell you how difficult it is to keep track of everything within the software. If a data/production base was implemented it would make organisation a lot better and less of a nightmare for major series work.
We've got a massive series coming up and we need to use the software (cause we have developed a great technique for it) but quite frankly at present its scaring the s**t out of me!!
Maybe theres a way to make this work with scripting or something - i don't know i'm not a programmer.
Another way to make this great program more accessible to Flash & Toonboom users is to upgrade the interface, make them more similar - you don't know how many times I've heard 'the timeline is so confusing' and believe me when you have to train 50 odd people to use a software it can become very labor intensive and very expensive.
Don't get me wrong, i think the software is capable of so much more than flash and toonboom combined, its just the interactivity side that causes a problem for me.
I want to help develop it for major production. Thats my 2 cents!
Feel free to lynch me now...
GK
Thought i'd pipe up...
Actually, i'm not sure whether we'd use AS for major series work. A small team of people can handle it but it may be a logistical nightmare to run a massive production on it. It was when we did La Reine Soleil.
I really want to help this software grow and become a big player, what I'd really like to do is work with Smith Micro and develop the software for production use.
I don't mean change the way the software works, its great as is but there are a few problems with the infrastructure. Mainly Data Base and filing. I can't tell you how difficult it is to keep track of everything within the software. If a data/production base was implemented it would make organisation a lot better and less of a nightmare for major series work.
We've got a massive series coming up and we need to use the software (cause we have developed a great technique for it) but quite frankly at present its scaring the s**t out of me!!
Maybe theres a way to make this work with scripting or something - i don't know i'm not a programmer.
Another way to make this great program more accessible to Flash & Toonboom users is to upgrade the interface, make them more similar - you don't know how many times I've heard 'the timeline is so confusing' and believe me when you have to train 50 odd people to use a software it can become very labor intensive and very expensive.
Don't get me wrong, i think the software is capable of so much more than flash and toonboom combined, its just the interactivity side that causes a problem for me.
I want to help develop it for major production. Thats my 2 cents!
Feel free to lynch me now...
GK