Bone Binding Issue

H13N.H3N · Post by **H13N.H3N** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:05 pm

Hi, i don't know if this has been reported before, i used the search engine but i couldn't find, at least not by Topic's name something similar to this.
The problem consist in a issue that doesn't seem to have any logic for me, not after working with Anime Studio since Moho, it belongs to Bones:
If i create a Bone layer, put inside a switch layer named head, with a group of layers inside including another switch layer for eyes, the main Bone layer named as the character, Suscie, does move the 'Head' switch layer properly alone, if i add another switch layer named 'Body' with a single vector layer inside named 'Front' for the front view of the character, the main bone Layer named 'Suscie' this time ignore the body and only keeps moving the head as it did first:

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But if i extract the vector layer 'Front' to the parent bone layer 'Suscie' then the bones does work and move the body:

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Also something similar happens if i assign more than one bone to a layer that is inside a group layer, only one of the two objects moves, it's like if only one bone could be added for every layer, at this point this is very limiting for me, because Anime Studio is one if not the second best vector animation tool, any ideas? i already tried with all that came to my mind but nothing seems to work.

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:04 pm

Layer binding is one layer to one bone. To do what it looks like you're wanting to do, you need to bind that body bone to the body switch layer and the head bone to the head switch layer. You rely on the head bone being parented to the body bone to move then together by moving the body bone.

Do the tutorials in Help>Help...

H13N.H3N · Post by **H13N.H3N** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:45 pm

Thanks for the reply, it's a shame that is only one bone for every layer, as well as this isn't mentioned at all in the help file i hope that in the future, Anime Studio Pro can support Bone Binding based in vertex objects rater than based in layers, i found an alternative way to animate my character because it is possible to use more than one bone layer, thank you again for the reply =)

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:14 am

WTF?!

You seriously need to study the help.

http://www.lostmarble.com/moho/manual/t ... index.html

Layer binding is only one way to use bones (out of at least three). Read this tutorial very carefully, and try out everything it says. Then promptly slap forehead and start animating.

H13N.H3N · Post by **H13N.H3N** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:27 am

Not that 'WTF' at all you know?, i looked at all the Tutorials and a video about bones in you tube, what i meant was that for bone binding, it would be nicer that the bone always in base of the vector shape handle the objects, in my case i wanted to use two bones with a single Switch layer (body), which is not possible and then the bone take the entire layer as reference, not the actual vector shape, i'm kind familiar with bones for 3D Studio Max that i used a lot when i was in modding escene, not problem with concepts at all i just wanted to know why this kind of things happens. BTW, it did work binding the switch layer 'body' to the main bone layer, but as i told you and you know, only one bone per layer is allowed, thanks for that advice =)

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:40 am

Apparently you didn't read that whole tutorial, as it clearly explains being able to bind bones to individual vector points or having multiple bones influence the same points with region or flexible binding.

Don't just 'look at' the tutorials. DO THEM.

And switch layers can also have bones on them.

H13N.H3N · Post by **H13N.H3N** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:44 am

hhh (sigh) perhaps the problem is that i'm not explaining myself in the right way, i did the whole tutorial files and also following every explication from the document that comes with Anime Studio Pro, but anyway, thanks for your support, this what i had to do for have what i want:

As i told you, i'm not an ignorant or a noob, i just wanted to know why is not possible such easy task

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:36 am

As i told you, i'm not an ignorant or a noob, i just wanted to know why is not possible such easy task

Why it's not possible to bind a whole layer to more than one bone? Because you are binding the whole layer.

There is definitely an easier way, but it's all spelled out in the help. You may need to unlearn some things that you're use to in other apps. Learn AS.

Good luck.

p.s. If you don't know how AS works, don't post in the bug report section.

mkelley · Post by **mkelley** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:56 am

Why you may be right (because I'm *still* not sure exactly what your problem is) the example you posted doesn't show that. You can do all you want to do (at least from looking at that example) with only one bone layer.

Here's how my layers look for a typical character:

Bone Layer
.....Downstage Arm
.....Downstage Hand Switch Layer
.....Head
..........Eye Switch Layer
..........Eye Brow Switch Layer
..........Mouth Switch Layer
..........Hat (for example -- to match your "Ponytail")
......Body
......DownStage Leg
......UpStage Leg
......Upstage Arm
......Upstage Hand Switch layer

(actually, my rig is much more complicated, but I wanted to show you you can control a whole LOT of various parts and switch layers with one bone layer).

That one bone layer contains multiple bones that affect the various layers -- but only one bone can control a switch layer. So my head bone controls all the items in the head but I can (and often do) have multiple bones to control *parts* of the head (like your ponytail). I could also, if I wanted, have a separate bone to control the eye brows and another to control the eyes (that would be weird but perhaps I wanted to move them around on the head) and once again this could all be done with the one bone layer. What I *couldn't* do is have more than one bone control the eye brows because it's a switch layer.

As I said, in your example it isn't necessary to have more than one bone layer, but that doesn't mean you don't need or want to use more than one -- just depends on what you're trying to do.

H13N.H3N · Post by **H13N.H3N** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:18 pm

well, i have no problems, i just think that since bone binding worked with no problems in vector layers, that should be the way that all the layers able to being controlled by bones should work, in help file doesn't mention that only one bone is allowed to bind a switch layer or a group layer, nor the tutorials that your partner seems to like a lot, when i make a character i think on it also as a future component of many projects, so i like to make almost anything as handful and simple as possible, your suggestion looks good tough. You know, even if

p.s. If you don't know how AS works, don't post in the bug report section.

Were right, a move of the post would be better than slap me in the face with that, perhaps some people aren't so patient enough, oh well, that how the world works perhaps.

BTW Thanks for the suggestion =), but i guess i should stop making answers before someone dislike this thread and decides to lock it.

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:17 pm

No one locks threads around here. So don't worry about that.

It's just very frustrating trying to help when you don't seem to understand how AS works. Layer binding controls the whole layer, but vector binding controls each vector control point individually. Layers have no such 'handles' within them.

This is very much like asking why you can't eat steak through a straw. A steak just isn't as flexible as a fluid.

mkelley · Post by **mkelley** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:07 pm

H13N.H3N wrote:nor the tutorials that your partner seems to like a lot,

Just to be clear, while I often agree with him and consider Wes a friend, I only know him through the forum here. We aren't "partners" in any real sense (well, he *has* helped me with some scripting issues and to understand masking, but on scripting so has Vern and I'm fairly sure Vern wouldn't categorize me as a partner :>).

Wes is a helpful guy and one of many people here I communicate with in private mail. If you spend enough time here you'll also develop the same sort of relationships, as long as you are willing to listen and learn.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:58 pm

Fist off the frustration that Synthsin felt comes from users who don't read the help thoroughly or do the tutorials. Trust me.. you read ALL the help files CAREFULLY and MORE THAN ONCE from front to back you will learn a lot. After years of using Moho and AS I still come across stuff in the help I didn't know.

Also blaming some other problem on why you didn't know this or making it out to be part of a huge failing in the application that is holding you back.

Synthin's first response was a helpful suggestion to read the help because... well
....

Thanks for the reply, it's a shame that is only one bone for every layer, as well as this isn't mentioned at all in the help file

Bone binding a single layer IS in the help under Tool Groups | Bone Tools:

Other layers can be contained within a bone layer. For example, you could create a "hand" layer and place that within an "arm" layer. To bind the hand to the arm, use this tool. Just click on the bone in the parent layer that you want to connect to, and the entire layer will move with that bone. In the arm/hand example, you would click on the bone nearest the wrist to bind the hand to the end of the arm.

Use this tool to bind an entire layer to a single bone. If you would rather bind certain points in a vector layer to certain bones, then you should use the Bind Points tool instead.

The idea of binding a layer to two bones is confusing to me. What would the percentage be? If there is no percentage how would one bone take control over another bone?

Actually the percentage thing and changing the bone binding is a feature request I've made a long time ago. It would be great if these were key framed channels for the bone or layer.

-vern