Moho Forum

Also see how the outline is like the back of the hand? Then there's the front.

Maybe I'm asking the. Wrong questions? gosh I must be confusing.

That's why I asked about 3D in AS just for things with a front and back or stuff like doors with thickness.

There are a couple of ways to do that in ASP but this effect is typically done using morph shapes and bones deformations so it's not really 3D--but when it's done well, it's a very convincing 'cheat'. The other option is to actually draw the sequence frame-by-frame. You can do that in ASP but it's not really designed for that. The few instances where you see some simple FBF in 'Scareplane' are sort of a hybrid animation technique using bones with FBF elements applied on top, along with another 'sleight of hand' trick: hiding and revealing layers.

I'm sure some of the more experienced users have applied more advanced variations of these '3D' tricks in their projects.

But if you really want full-on 3D animation, you should look into a package dedicated to 3D.

G.

Just for sake of experimentation I decided to see what making an Anime Studio "3D" hand would be like, and point out what some of the pitfalls are. Here was a quick test.



As you can see, you can sort of come up with something, but it's really more trouble than it's worth. Unless you wanted to make a robot or something, (And even then, still probably not worth it)

For one thing, shading is a nightmare with these 3d shapes that you have very little control over. My assumption was always that the camera itself is the "light source," but to be honest that can only be partly true and I don't really understand what it's doing half the time. Just suffice it to say that AS only truly works with the 2-dimension shape on the plane, and you can rotate and pivot that plane. But when you extrude into 3D it calculates these imaginary faces between opposite vector shapes, and the faces have very little regard for how shadows SHOULD fall. You can always omit the 3D shading styles, and maybe work with an outline:



But the other fact is that all AS 3d is always symmetrical along at least 1 axis, which makes crafting almost anything non-mechanical-looking nearly impossible.

Anyway, sorry to interrupt with something now off-topic, but thought it might be interesting to share.

That was pretty cool, ddrake.

Greenlaw wrote:...this effect is typically done using morph shapes and bones deformations so it's not really 3D...it's a very convincing 'cheat'.

When you think about it, all images and animation is a "cheat", an optical illusion of moving 3-dimensional forms on a flat canvas. You can certainly create the illusion of a hand turning without 3D methods:

Actually that's too many inbetweens. You can get by with just three images for most turns:

Keep it simple.

That's a nice demonstration.

G.

TheMinahBird wrote:Say I had like a gloved hand or an ethnic hand (brown on one side and light on the other), what if I wanted to turn the hand over? Like it'll feel like 3D when It really isn't?

You would have to spend the time to draw it and color it properly, there's no shortcut for this in any 2D animation unfortunately.

But if you really want full-on 3D animation, you should look into a package dedicated to 3D.

Well I don't want to animate in 3D it's just I wanted to animate hands better xD Why does everyone keep reminding me this?

In the hand animation (w/o the 3D). I think you used a switch for the other side?

Heh, sorry, I think it was the way you asked the question referencing 3D. Makes it sound like you're looking for a "simple" way to do it, beyond just drawing the positions you'd need. All animation is illusion. A series of images that create the illusion of movement. And all animation is technically 2D, and creates the illusion of 3D to varying degrees using layering, shading, and perspective techniques.

In anime studio you can either do it as a series of switch layers that each form the shape and position you want, and you quickly key through them, or the new fad of smartbone turns that incorporates animating point motion to get from one shape to the next and possibly a little bit of layer re-ordering.

ddrake and I are on the same page here.

TheMinahBird wrote:In the hand animation (w/o the 3D). I think you used a switch for the other side?

Actually it was done with point translation and layer sorting within a smart bone action. It's part of this file available here. Switches would work too.

TheMinahBird wrote:Well I don't want to animate in 3D it's just I wanted to animate hands better xD Why does everyone keep reminding me this?

Part of confusion is the term "3D" can mean 3D modeling (the technology) or it can mean having the quality of 3-dimensions. If you mean the latter, you might want to do a forum search since I recall there were a number posts about animating hands.

Thanks for compliment, Greenlaw.

I stumbled upon this nifty turnaround tutorial by Selgin last night.



I think it illustrates the ideas we've been discussing here quite clearly: trying to produce '3D' animation in ASP is really more about creating a convincing illusion of 3D than actually modeling and animating scenes in 3D.

G.