Moho Forum

That "success formula" was brought to light by Aristoteles in his writing "Poetics" which influenced Western storytelling for ages to come. It is not so heavily followed in Eastern storytelling which descends from another line of thought and creativity.

In this 21st century, each new technology brings many more possibilities in how it can be done. As it becomes easier and less expensive to get great images on screen, there is more freedom to experiment with how to tell a story. I think LonelyGirl15 on Youtube is a prime example of this. It is a method of storytelling fueled by technology that didn't exist a few years ago. It is specific for the internet age and because the characters can communicate with the audience watching it, there is a level of interactivity and I think this explains its extreme popularity.

I think the filmmaking process can certainly lose its fun if we believe it must be done one way. What works for a large crew with a traditional workflow may become a hinderance for the small crew or lone animator at home. Niche market films may have a broader playing field.

Genete wrote: a) General view of my character walking (travelling)
b) Change camera to watch the bird flying.
c) Camera focus into head of character while it stops and look upstairs.
d) Camera focus to bird that drop the shit.
e) Camera focus to the face of character showing the shit splashing on the head.
f) General view. Bird continue flying.
g) Close up to character getting sad.
h) end.

Forgive me for the example.

If I create the whole scene within only one file and everything lineal in timeline, then transitions between differents sections (a,b,c,.. etc.) done with the camera could result so stressed. It should need some slow transitions that are not according with real time that things are happening.

I guess you need to do it in same way that the movies does.

I mean, you have to split it in different shot from different views. Maybe some of them should run ALL the action.

Then, at the end, you will have all the material in video. Many actions with different points of view.

The you must edit using some edition software to select cameras to build the story more or less like your story board.

Its almost impossible to get all from ONE continued and single shot. It will be not pleasent for the user. You need to use the movies "language" to make it and will have to be carefull that the angles that you select for each camera shoot will make sense with other camera angles.

Remember the basic principle that camera must be always from the same side on same scene, no matter that changes the position.

I hope i make myself clear and that my answer helps you.

Genete wrote: This is my first "long" animation. There is a moment in the action that camera focus on fighting between main character and "superman". Exactly in that moment a hole is opened in the floor. In my animation seems that both characters are stoped in the air meanwhile the hole is opening. I want to make close ups of both, fighting and hole opening... but ... How to do it credible?

here is the file.
http://media.putfile.com/La-cruz-magica

You animation is very nice!!!... but it lacks of showing different points of view.

Just watch TV, Cartoons or any movie and start noticing how ofthen they change the point of view.
That is a VERY POWERFULL addition that give more expression and more rythm to any film and to help you to tell the story.

All this is always done by having same sequence recorded (or shoted) from different points of view and then in the edition you combine different parts of each point of view to make it credible, to add rythm and to "tell the story".

That is the job of the director in the film industry.

AS is great because you can do the same (that is one of the uses of moving the camera, not only for travels on the scene, but for having different shots of SAME ACTION, from different points of view for the editing part).

I hope my explation is clear (sorry for my english) and it helps you.

*Now i notice you speak spanish, in fact the other day you was so kind to answer one PM from my side. So if you need further help dont hsitate to send me a PM because i study 2 years as film maker and i know a little (not too much he he) about the film language.

Now i notice you speak spanish, in fact the other day you was so kind to answer one PM from my side. So if you need further help dont hsitate to send me a PM because i study 2 years as film maker and i know a little (not too much he he) about the film language.

I'll take your advices and wrap your offer for future needs. I really need those lessons.
Thanks
-G

thanks for sharing your thoughts, ricardo. i really appreciate them, especially the directing part, how cameras are put to work in order to define a sequence of scenes.

i think this is a different set of skills altogether, requiring a new level of mindset.

anyway, i'm expecting more contributions coming your way. they really do help me in a big way.

This is a small example of a simple scene.

I use SpringBoard storyboard software (freeware edition).

The scene has 2 actors, A and B. Each one in front of the other and they have some dialog.

In the frame 1 we can see the top view. This is not a shot, just the top view to understand the scenario.

I will take ALL the scene using 3 shots. In the example are frames 2, 3 and 4.



As i said, i will take the WHOLE scene 3 times. And then, in the editing time in will switch from one to other depending on which is talking or which actions or emotions i want to show to the user. As result i will obtain the whole scene with mixed points of view.

To give more rythm to the movie i will also switch from one to other shot.

Its the edition job to select when to change.

The main difference betwen movies and soap operas, is that in movies they take the time to plan all this and have a complex set of shots to do a very nice edition.

In TV usually they have 2 or 3 cameras that switches from the same scene in real time and the switcher is changing from one to other in real time with not much time to plan or use detailed job to obtain more accurate results.

All this "director" part can be done with AS very fine. This tool is good enought for all this work, we can plan very well all the shots and edition.

If there is any interest i can do some beginners tutorial on movie direction.

interesting.

if it won't burden you, maybe you can answer some questions:

1) if you're given a work on setting up a fight scene, how would you storyboard the scene?

2) are there styles in filming an action ( ninja ) fight scene?

3) what is your opinion of the current style of fight scenes they use in japan and hollywood. i remember there are differences in how animation is rendered, hollywood tend to have smooth flowy kind of effect, while japanese have this kind to fast smoke-filled light-effects kind of style.

and i'd be very interested in your tutorials.

dlangdev

I dont know almost anything about fight scenes

But i guess it could be very interesting to plan and direct one of them!

For movies (maybe not for animation, im not sure) i think they split all the fight into "chunks" and take a lot (but a lot) of shots for each one, having a lot of angles and a lot of zooms of each detail.

Maybe in animation the is no need to all that much multiple angles of each movement, but i think there is a need of multiple angles of the fight to givbe more rythm and follow the scene and remark some parts or details.

Maybe wirh 3 shots culd be enought, by im sure there must be a lot of edition switching.

Per example, again using Springboard, i will show you what i mean.

(Excuse me for my bad english and also for my bad paints he he)

Again, frame 1 is the scenario.

Frame 2 show the start of the fight using a shot from camera 2

In Frame 3 i capture the first hot with a foot from actor A to B swithcing to camera 3

A very fast change will show (in Frame 4) Camera 4 shot showing A point of view watching B in the floor after the kick.

As you can see, for 5 second of fight, i switch 3 times from camera... i gguess there will be many many switches along the whole fight. Maybe needed more than 3 cameras (in fact i mean 3 whole scenes taked from 3 different camera positions)

Remember i done all this in 3 minutes.

The bliw arrows in frame 1 show each camera position.

The small arrows on each head show the direction od the face of each actor.



Hhow to choose camera positions?

There is some basic rules (that a very experimented director can break, but not a beginner):

As you can see in this frame, all the positions was made from the same side of the GREEN line.



The line is the imaginary line betwen actors.

To be able that all the shots makes sense and keep same point of view "direction" you must follow this rule.

Otherwise people will feel some "jump" in the scene, with something wrong or nosense visually talking.

Of actors move or there are more seconday actors, you keep with your original line. The GREEN line dont move, no matter actores move. You must be on the same side of the line all the scene.

If you use camera traveling must be carefull that you dont pass the line.

As i said, maybe when somebody are VERY familiar with all this tuff (that is named "cinematografic language") he can do more risk camera movements, but for the rest of mortals, this is a BIG RULE in cinematografic direction

*Please foregive for my bad english and maybe wrong sentences, i hope i was able to explain what i was trying to explain.

Hey Ricardo! Those free cinematographic lessons are splendid!
Thanks for share!!
-G

thank you for the quick response, i really appreciate the time and effort you made.

i noticed two camera positions require 3/4 views, which is kind of hard to rig. just by planning the movements with respect to rigging, this will require lots of layer switches.

by the way, i noticed you used overhead camera angles. is that your style in showing facial expressions?

Genete wrote:Hey Ricardo! Those free cinematographic lessons are splendid!
Thanks for share!!
-G

Thanks.

Note: I notice that i made many typos too, so not only bad english but typos... but i was writing almost in the dark because its 10:300 hrs here and my little son (4 yo) is sleeping in the living room until i move him to his room.

About the superman movie, i draw some fast ideas of the first part to give an idea of how much more cinematographic could be the same movie with this additions:



Frame 1 is when the main actors walks at the beggining.

Frame 2 show some possible shot when he raise his head and discover the X

Frame 3 is some possible shot (not all this superman part, just one possible shot) when he talks with superman

Frame 4 is another part of superman talk, but now from some camera behind superman.

The hole falling part is more diffcult from the painting side to do this, but i guess if you can add some points of view from inside the hole (watching from inside to outside) at the beggining of the fall, and latter some points of view from actor A behind, could be more cinematographic. Even some point of view from the X to both, actor A and Superman...

Im sure you understand that im not doing any critizing to your work, just talking about "movie direction" ideas, because you ask some question and i love talking about cinematographic language he he

ricardo, i think there is a solution for the 3/4 views by limiting the movements of the arm and legs. then do a layer switch when the arm swings a different angle.

i'll work on this tonight and see if i can implement it.

this is going to be my first attempt at layer switching, though. so it may take me some time to get it correctly implemented.

i like the three angle position of the camera, which makes it easier for the viewers to relate to the setting of characters and environment.

dlangdev wrote:if you're given a work on setting up a fight scene, how would you storyboard the scene?

Fight scenes are pretty much "a given" in westerns... want to screen a few [70] of those?

[url]http://www.archive.org/search.php?query ... Western%22[/
url]

dlangdev wrote:thank you for the quick response, i really appreciate the time and effort you made.

Thanks. I love this kind of subject. I like very much the cinematographic stuff (i worked in some USA movies as assistant of the assistant of the assistant of the assitant he he. Movies that was filmed in Mexico, also i worked in some latinamerican small movies as director's assitant)

i noticed two camera positions require 3/4 views, which is kind of hard to rig. just by planning the movements with respect to rigging, this will require lots of layer switches.

Yes, i know.
Possible to do that in 2D there should be changes. I was just trying to make examples that show the point is was trying to explain.

The important thing is to notice that you need to have more than one shot for some scenes to be able to mantain user attention and to use the same visual language that people are used to when wathc some video or films.

Take a look at some 2D cartoons at cartoon network or discovery kids and there are many examples of how to do this in the best way, they are masters!!

by the way, i noticed you used overhead camera angles. is that your style in showing facial expressions?

Was just trying to make some examples that shows very noticeable my point.