Moho Forum

synthsin75 wrote:I just seriously doubt SM's interest in customer relations.

I don't see this. My experience with them during the testing was very positive. The contact person with SM during this was... fantastic. I truly believe they care about the customers MUCH MORE than you are willing to give them credit for. I think this whole situation has them just as upset as you are. It threw a monkey wrench into the whole thing. They weren't prepared to deal with this and had to act quickly to try and fix it.

the note about the Linux version is proof of their commitment to the customers. 11 units sold? And yet they will still have that version available? That's commitment. Any other company would have dumped the linux version in a heartbeat.

Keep one thing in mind... SM has other products that most likely make a lot more money than AS. This upgrade probably has some risk involved. They need to get a return on the investment they've made. Other programs like Poser or even Manga Studio are already solid performers with a long history of success. Even though AS has been around for a while it has been low on the radar. It isn't well known. They can't spend the same effort on AS that they spend on Poser.

My concern is that this forum is a new customer's main source of info regarding the application. I don't expect anyone to lie or sugar coat the truth. We all know there are quirks with how AS works but overall this program is a solid performer. But it would be a shame if people were turned off by 15 pages of posts from a subset of users bitching and moaning about something they have not really had time to evaluate thoroughly.

This forum represents Smith Micro's investment in the future of AS. If you trash it too much here you won't be helping anyone. For me, my efforts will be focused on maximizing the script additions to overcome any perceived short comings. Rather than point out the minor flaws I plan to play up the benefits... and find solutions for those flaws if needed.

If you want to put AS 6 through the ringer by all means do so, just don't cloud the issue with personal emotions regarding this flub up by Walmart which was not controlled by SM. And please make sure you have the FINAL version before you start "bug" testing it.

This whole situation is due to Walmart releasing Debut too early. Smith Micro did what they had to do. Getting shelf space in WALMART? Holy cow that's huge. It exposes AS to many more customers. If the only way to do that was to rush a version to them before it was final it is worth it.


-vern

heyvern wrote:Getting shelf space in WALMART? Holy cow that's huge. It exposes AS to many more customers. If the only way to do that was to rush a version to them before it was final it is worth it. -vern

Agreed.

But it would be a shame if people were turned off by 15 pages of posts from a subset of users bitching and moaning about something they have not really had time to evaluate thoroughly.

This forum represents Smith Micro's investment in the future of AS.

That's kind of the point though. If a few of us with only a handful of hours have found these, then it won't stand up to a through evaluation. And I have yet to see SM do anything of note as far as taking this forum seriously, Mike and Steve excluded.


Look, I was very excited initially. I totally intended to try to push out a lot of screen shots, tutorials, etc. to get everyone up to speed. Even with the Walmart version. I mean, how much better to know how to use the features going in, instead of a barrage of Q and A here. I really did want to trumpet in version 6.

Next thing I know, I'm being told that I don't have the final version and there are beta testers around who know much more about it. So I think, where are these tutorials, screen shots, etc. from the people in the know?

So I have no problem with explaining it's deficiencies. Someone, anyone, had a chance to help me trumpet when I was trying. Instead, I'm discouraged and then hear crickets for a while. Sure, no one was ready for this. You've got to get on top of it, and spin it your way. Believe me, I was all ready to gear up and show it off. Just the smallest support in that effort would have made something of it.

Instead, it seems there's some undue paranoia keeping everyone's lips sealed.

As I see it, I did more than I should have, aside from being a true fan of AS. You're just going to have to be patient with me. I'll come back around. If anyone wants this forum to be a major advertising tool for AS, they should think about actually making use of it. There are plenty of people here who would volunteer their precious time to help a software they really believe in.





p.s. When are they announcing sales? Any solid info yet? We need something to work with here. Just can't get on the bandwagon if we can't find it.

Of course, if SM did think of this forum as a strictly advertising vehicle, I'd probably be banned for too much decent.

Sorry Synthsin, but it feels like I'm talking to a brick wall. You are obsessed with this mistaken view that SM is hell bent on keeping info from you. That this whole situation was some conspiracy to keep everyone out of the loop for some evil purpose.

The official launch happened ahead of schedule. Mike has already posted that since AS 6 is at this point he can focus more time on doing tutorials.

Also I AM FRANTICALLY DOING TUTORIALS RIGHT NOW! Working as fast as I can. I have a new site up right now though I have not finished uploading and linking up the tutorials yet, that I will be working on for the next few days getting ready.

A good video tutorial is not just randomly doing stuff and screen capturing it. A good tutorial needs to be thought out and in some cases "practiced". I'm not going to go to all the effort required to create and upload videos of random clicking in a document.

You don't seem to be reading what has been written. there have been several posts from Mike and "Agent Smith" that you seem to have ignored totally. Some of our comments you don't seem to be acknowledging at all.

-vern

how do i add project files to the Content Library directly from workspace?

heyvern wrote: the note about the Linux version is proof of their commitment to the customers. 11 units sold? And yet they will still have that version available? That's commitment. Any other company would have dumped the linux version in a heartbeat.
-vern

The problem is that they don't know that.
Us linux users have been forced to buy windows licenses and get Mikes linux build on the side. Theres no way they can have gathered statistics on linux sales since they haven't had any. In their store it's been all windows and no linux sales.
I would guess that the sales are a lot higher than 11 licences.

Linux sales would have to be WAY higher than 11 to make the development cost effective. And if this is being done in the fashion you describe they would know exactly how many they have sold since they have to deal with those people on a one to one basis.

-vern

Vern, sorry, I swear you I didn't want to be harsh. You know I love AS, admire Mike, you and many people here. I know you made a lot of work, I know beta testers weren't chosen at random, I know you all are talented and intelligent people.
I just wanted to make a contribution. I didn't say how much I loved video tracking, audio edition, docked window, blend morph, new scripting, etc. Sorry for that, I really like this version and sincerely I value and respect what you all have done. I just was thinking in future versions, there is a lot of tribune here right now and I wanted to be sure the big bosses know some issues that maybe, just maybe, didn't know.
Maybe I should have sent you a PM first, the true is I didn't thought on that, I was all (all) night playing around with AS and really love it, maybe the fatigue made me think wrong. But, hey, I haven't talked of anything else but AS all this week. Love it.

A good video tutorial is not just randomly doing stuff and screen capturing it. A good tutorial needs to be thought out and in some cases "practiced".

That's exactly what I mean by having no support. If I didn't think someone else would be nipping at my heels will much better tutorials, I'd have done some real ones. If someone was smart enough to have actually gotten in contact with me directly, I could have found out what may have been needed still in terms of tutorials and demos. I actually was going to do one on frame by frame, but then thought that, certainly, they'd make a big showing of this themselves.

I've read everything posted. I don't know what parts you think I should stress acknowledging.

Seriously, I had the opportunity (and capability) to flood the forum with enough positive info to stem the tide of pricing complaints a bit. Someone had only to ask, and let me know it was welcomed and supported. It's like I've intruded on some club of which I haven't been invited. Just because I had the nerve to buy what was sent to the retailer.

I really felt like I was giving away trade secrets or something.

I have absolutely no idea what tutorials, demos, or other materials anyone may be, and already spent a lot of time, producing. It's just a waste that I'm not psychic.




p.s. I know you didn't like my approach to my masking tutorials, but you should know what kind of actual tutorials I am capable of.

p.p.s. And if you'd let this alone, maybe I could move on. I really don't like "bashing" AS. It hurts. But if I can't help promote, I can help fix (by pointing out bugs).

Some questions:

Is there going to be an updated script documentation?

What happened to the ctrl+F5 to reload scripts? This is absolutely needed for script development.

There had *better* be a way to reload scripts. That's all I'm saying <bg>.

Selgin and others.

Sorry for being such a jerk about all of this. I hate to come across as a whiner about all this myself. It just seems that all of the good things have been overshadowed by how the release was handled which is important but not the most important thing. It just feels like people are being ten times as critical.

----

Story time with Vern

True story from my youth...

I worked at an ad agency for about 12 years. In my early days I worked on a huge promotional display for one of our clients. I spent a week on this display. It was a lot of work. It looked fantastic.

When it was finished it had to be delivered just a few blocks down the street to our client. It was raining cats and dogs at the time and I was very concerned about protecting my hard work before it got to the client. The display had been wrapped carefully for delivery but I felt it needed some "water proofing". There was no clear plastic available so I carefully cut apart some garbage bags and wrapped the package with it.

Bad idea. In my naivety I believed the content and protecting it from damage was more important than the packaging.

The client did not see the hard work or the quality of the display. All the client saw was the garbage bag used to wrap it. They tore it apart... literally.... they picked at the edges, peeled off the corners... scraped at it with knives... peeled off the photos... scraped off the lettering... they picked at it till it was ruined because they were pissed about the fact that it had been delivered in a... garbage bag. They sent it back... destroyed demanding we do it again.

They made us redo the work. I did it all again... the same as the first one. This time it was carefully shrink wrapped and presented. It was identical to the first one but they were much happier with this "improved" version.

------

I'm well aware of "packaging" and "presentation" and how it can effect our views of content. I agree with it as well. I felt that sinking feeling in my stomach when I read the very first post about the Walmart Debut version. I imagined what might be coming.

I suppose if I had not been involved with it I might have been just as angry and critical but I can't know for sure.

-vern

Vern,

I doubt very much indeed that any critical comments about the way AS6 works have ANYTHING to do with Wal-Mart, pricing, or how it was announced. I see these as completely separate issues -- yeah, the release announcement and Wal-Mart thing was botched, but now we are looking at AS6 and now we see blemishes that apparently beta testers were aware of but can't be fixed. IOW, this ain't a garbage bag issue.

If I am to believe the latter than AS6 is in big trouble -- as a programmer I am well aware there are things you can and can't do, but one thing for sure is if something a user does causes your program to crash can't be fixed then you need to remove that feature or somehow prevent the user from even trying to do that thing. That is what I am most amazed at by your reaction -- you're saying Mike knew about all these bugs and he just said "that's the way it is?"

I will refrain from saying anything about Mike because I will just get into further trouble, but in this case I'm going to guess that you have this wrong, You HAVE to have this wrong. He either did not know about these bugs or when you told him about them he didn't understand what you were telling him. There is no way a reasonable competent programmer would permit these kinds of known bugs to just remain. That's just insane.

Also, to say that newbees come here and we shouldn't scare them off is preposterous -- they are exactly the sort of folks who will be encountering these sorts of bugs. My hunch is the betas like yourself were smart enough not to do stupid things -- a big problem with a beta of a product this forward moving. But the newbees won't be, and if they come here and find no mention at all about this they will not only be turned off of AS, they are liable to never come back again.

So -- in a humble effort to actually do something positive here, I'd love to see Agent Smith and/or Mike open up an official AS6 bugs forum. Trust me, it is needed desperately. There we can tell Mike all that needs to be fixed so he will fix it (and I trust that he will). As a mod I think you could then safely move these kinds of threads there and keep the general forum open for all the hurrahs you want to give the new release.

mkelley wrote:you're saying Mike knew about all these bugs and he just said "that's the way it is?"

This is exactly what I'm talking about.... no one is reading the posts!!!!! I DID NOT SAY ANY SUCH THING!!!! I NEVER SAID THAT!

I referred to Selgin's post with a list of issues. I said MANY of those things were brought up. I was trying to get the point across that the testers were not drooling idiots.

Now you are intentionally EXAGGERATING what I wrote. Making it sound worse than it is. You are creating a fantasy scenario that is not real. Don't put words in my mouth.

I'm done... I'm too tired. This is like a discussion about politics or religion.

-vern