Moho Forum

Rai López wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 6:46 am Hi there, a new BETA is (finally) ready for download in the first post; more info there too... Thanks for any feedback/reports

hey Ramon! Not sure why ... but the ls_shapes_window.lua in the Tools directory in the .zip is just about empty...is this intentional? (the full script is in the ls_shapes_window/Menu/- Lost Scripts/ directory)

Hi, Paul! Yes, it relates to this:

Rai López wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 6:29 pm [*] Show In "Tools" Palette (Experimental) -> Show/Hide the button in toolbar, so you have a chance of can save some space as more of these kind of windows arrive... If hidden, go to "Scripts -> Lost Scripts - Shapes Window" to open. It kind of cheats Moho, but works perfectly fine here; any issue, please report!

But does it work to you? (I hope!) Since it's the way I found to can easily get the toolbar button hidden or visible at will. It should be transparent/unnoticeable in installation terms, and the idea is one can hide it there (where space is valuable) but still can open the window by means of its Scripts menu entry and, if then you change your mind, can make it visible again simply by checking this Show In "Tools" Palette option. It may be specially useful for windows/scripts not intended to be used so frequently, but it seemed to me a good idea to propose a concept like that with the future scenario I exposed in mind... But as I also said, it somehow cheats Moho and I'm open to considerations, if any, specially from more experienced scripters, like happen to be the case

Rai López wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 2:25 pm Hi, Paul! Yes, it relates to this:

Rai López wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 6:29 pm [*] Show In "Tools" Palette (Experimental) -> Show/Hide the button in toolbar, so you have a chance of can save some space as more of these kind of windows arrive... If hidden, go to "Scripts -> Lost Scripts - Shapes Window" to open. It kind of cheats Moho, but works perfectly fine here; any issue, please report!

But does it work to you? (I hope!) Since it's the way I found to can easily get the toolbar button hidden or visible at will. The idea is one can hide it there (where space is valuable) but still can open the window by means of its Scripts menu entry and, if then you change your mind, can make it visible again simply by checking this Show In "Tools" Palette option. It may be specially useful for windows/scripts not intended to be used so frequently, but it seemed to me a good idea to propose a concept like that with the future scenario I exposed in mind... But as I also said, it somehow cheats Moho and I'm open to considerations, if any, specially from more experienced scripters, like happen to be the case

Ah. Ok. I hadn't tried installing the tool until getting the clarification... interesting idea... I'll give it a whirl (and have a deeper think about having "the same script" as a menu and/or tool button... )

Wow, neat idea for hiding tools at will. And really cool that it shows a preview of the selected shape.

EDIT:
Building on the idea of showing/hiding tools, seems you'd be able to make a single tool (so it's always available in the tool window) that could store tool "profiles"...groups of tools to enable/disable for different phases/tasks of animation.

HaHa. I didn't eve realise that that was a Preview. I was thinking: what the hell is that 'stupid' button for? In an ideal would that would be bigger - or with an option to place it where the Palette is placed (maybe if you click on the Preview thumbnail toggle). Now that I know what it is - I like the fact that it animates in real-time (also the size isn't so bad).

Yeah lots of neat stuff. Shape Preview. Tool button which auto-disables. Shape/Point select mode. Funky Palettes (even though I think the slider will prove to be redundant).

One thing that doesn't seem to be working is the Large Icons. Icons are just the same size.

Also ... for me - the 'Style' cursors are 'unnecessary' - bordering on annoying. These (and Swatch) Drop Down Menus might be better as ImagePopupMenu's.

Excellent work.

p.s. You may also need to set/reset some sort of 'update lock' around the use of LM_ImageTextList:RemoveItem() in a loop - as it calls HandleMessage each time. This can account for slow updates when switch Layers for example.

Issue:

There appears to be a problem when deleting selected Point KeyFrames. When the tool is open and points selected - it always deletes the Point/s - no matter where the window focus is.

Thanks for all the feedback, guys!

hayasidist wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 2:52 pm I'll give it a whirl (and have a deeper think about having "the same script" as a menu and/or tool button... )

Good! It never hurts... Just in case there was some aspect I have not taken into account or whatever.

synthsin75 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 12:49 am Building on the idea of showing/hiding tools, seems you'd be able to make a single tool (so it's always available in the tool window) that could store tool "profiles"... groups of tools...

One of my first thoughts was indeed create a tool or window to provide such kind of management, but when the current approach raised it was simply too tentative for its simplicity. I was amazed with the fact only one line were enough to can make it work that way , and with the functionality included in the own tool there is no dependencies, but for more advanced possibilities like those you name it well could worth something more elaborated, of course.

SimplSam wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 1:42 am HaHa. I didn't eve realise that that was a Preview. I was thinking: what the hell is that 'stupid' button for? In an ideal world that would be bigger - or with an option to place it where the Palette is placed (maybe if you click on the Preview thumbnail toggle).

Sincerely, I didn't expect it to get so much attention, overall after I had to disable fills in the last minute due to a weird viewport behavior that I'll have to investigate with calm... The problem is I didn't get to copy/paste or transfer stuff from M_Mesh's objects to LM_MeshPreview ones (because that would simply have been too easy? ) and I had to resort to a workaround involving CombineShapes() function that seemed to work, but turned out for some reason interferes with existing Liquid Shapes, if any, after undo... But besides that, what I'm not sure is if I follow you with this part: "an option to place it where the Palette is placed", Sam, do you mean bellow where the Raise/Lower buttons are would be a better place for it? Becase at some point I considered that, but as I went adding buttons there the current placement started to seem a better place to me, since the widget wouldn't be aligned with the selected shape anyway (which of course would be the ideal).

SimplSam wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 1:42 am Funky Palettes (even though I think the slider will prove to be redundant)

Really? But if the SLIDER was indeed the more interesting part to me! I mean, it's the key to make them really functional (to the extent possible) and not only a static palette as we currently have. Maybe the screen recording I included gives a wrong idea of it, but the typical use case is not intended to go changing between Swatches as shown there, but can use the one you prefer (or the one more appropriate for the case) and can get the whole range of colors plus saturation by means of the slider, without witch you'd have to have different Swatches for each primary color, and even though the color range would be much more limited. But of course I understand that, since the color precision is not warrantied due to the obvious limitations, one can not find it as useful as it could be...

SimplSam wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 1:42 am One thing that doesn't seem to be working is the Large Icons. Icons are just the same size.

But the size of the buttons should be larger even though the icons remains the same (I added such clarification afterwards to the notes), that's what you were referring, isn't it? Or they don't change for you at all? Since the change requieres the window to be reopening, I could have included a "@2x" set of images and that would work for sure, but for the moment I thought it could be enough to simply provide a bigger clickable area with, mainly, pencil users in mind. Oh, and larger buttons should provide a little bigger shape preview, BTW.

SimplSam wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 1:42 am Also ... for me - the 'Style' cursors are 'unnecessary' - bordering on annoying. These (and Swatch) Drop Down Menus might be better as ImagePopupMenu's.

And I kind of agree , but the reason behind is I wanted all them in only one row and the width is so limited that I had to discard the use of ImagePopupMenu (since with the icon itself plus the arrow already takes too much space, and I wanted at least some letters of the selected items to be shown). So I thought the cursors could help on clarifying what you are dealing with instantly, maybe with more unexperienced users in mind for which dealing with Styles are already difficult enough... But yeah, nothing that totally convinced to me either, so I well may change that, or provide a way to disable that kind of superfluous (for more advanced users at least) stuff.

SimplSam wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 1:42 am p.s. You may also need to set/reset some sort of 'update lock' around the use of LM_ImageTextList:RemoveItem() in a loop - as it calls HandleMessage each time. This can account for slow updates when switch Layers for example.

Indeed, I've tried to be very cautious regarding that and very specially where loops are involved, but of course I may have oversight things... I'll review everything having to do with that and see, but if you've detected something in particular it could be of great help to know where, if possible, of course.

SimplSam wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 1:42 am There appears to be a problem when deleting selected Point KeyFrames. When the tool is open and points selected - it always deletes the Point/s - no matter where the window focus is.

Yeah... I also detected that at some late point, but I kind of assumed it could be due to some kind of problem with the dialogs system itself and didn't investigated it much far... I'm not very confident about it, but I wish I was wrong and it's something I can fix, though!

Sorry for the long post, I didn't realice till I pressed the Preview button... and thank you, very much indeed, again for all the provided feedback and added thoughts!

Rai López wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 5:19 am

hayasidist wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 2:52 pm I'll give it a whirl (and have a deeper think about having "the same script" as a menu and/or tool button... )

Good! It never hurts... Just in case there was some aspect I have not taken into account or whatever.

First some background:
I have had for some years now a set-up whereby I can load chunks of Lua code (functions) into a directory inside my custom content folders; and I have a test harness that lists these chunks in a dropdown menu so I can select and run them and, optionally, pass data to them from the test harness's UI and/or interact with them using the mouse. Over time, I'd been intending to "do more" such as saving the return values so they can be used as input data to other functions - but at present the chunks are stand-alone.

I also have a set-up that allows me to (interactively) override the "IsRelevant" function in selected scripts such that they do or don't show as I choose. (And this might well be the basis for implementing something as Wes has suggested re toolset "profiles" for different phases of animation?)

Current tests / thoughts:
I've just run a few simplistic experiments where I have a menu script and a tool script that are each essentially just the same (very trivial) UI albeit tailored to whether they're tool or menu - but both invoke the same set of (tool) functions (currently only held as part of the menu script's .lua file but which could be "in any file"). The key difference is that the menu script can also turn the IsRelevant flag in the tool script on or off (so that it does or does not show in the tools window).

Where next:
(But this may take some time because of other workloads.) My thoughts are that I should be able to take the dropdown menu that my harness currently uses and turn it into a modeless window just as Ramon has superbly demonstrated is feasible and use it not just to access my test functions but also to access "factory" (and third party) tools - IOW a floating window for (dynamically chosen sets of) tools...

watch this space!?

I really enjoyed the improvements, but I’ve been having trouble deleting keyframes in Timeline with it open, plus when I put it to open automatically with Moho it gets pretty big, I have to score for it to get big again and uncheck to get smaller.

I’ll downgrade and wait for a new version.

I just realized that I had a problem with version 2 and version 1 as well: When selecting Freehand and using alt to increase Brush’s thickness, for some reason it doesn’t work. In version 2 not even closing the window, but in the 1 closing the window returns to normal.

Yes, I remember your tool for enabling/dissabling tools was awesome and super advanced, Paul. I never got to know how/why it really worked but found it very useful under certain situations, in fact that's why I thought no one like you for talking about the matter with deep knowledge! Although we are clearly talking about very different approaches with different goals and, luckily, for my needs here I didn't have to go so far/deep...

lucasfranca wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 5:33 pm I’ve been having trouble deleting keyframes in Timeline with it open, plus when I put it to open automatically with Moho it gets pretty big, I have to score for it to get big again and uncheck to get smaller.

First part is a know issue and, for what I've been able to check this morning, it seems to me a general issue having to do with how the program deals with this kind of windows, as I was afraid... I'd have to be totally sure before reporting it, tho. For what it's worth in the meantime, I found one still can get selected key/s deleted while the window is open by holding the mouse button over it/them and pressing the Delete key before releasing the button; not the best scenario, of course, but it may alleviate a bit the situation for now, so there it is. Regarding second part, yeah, sorry but I didn't get to fix that before releasing this beta because turned out the option required more work than expected, but I'll back to it as soon as possible and will try to fix it with a little more calm. Sincerely... I didn't expected startup opening was really useful/used untill windows re-position was possible, so thanks for let me know it seems important.

lucasfranca wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 5:47 pm I just realized that I had a problem with version 2 and version 1 as well: When selecting Freehand and using alt to increase Brush’s thickness, for some reason it doesn’t work. In version 2 not even closing the window, but in the 1 closing the window returns to normal.

Oh, this one is indeed new to me. I'm not in front of my computer right now, but I'll check it as soon as I get home and see, I hope this time a fix from my part is possible... Thank you very much for taking the time of reporting it!

Rai López wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 8:06 pm Yes, I remember your tool for enabling/dissabling tools was awesome and super advanced, Paul. I never got to know how/why it really worked but found it very useful under certain situations, in fact that's why I thought no one like you for talking about the matter with deep knowledge! Although we are clearly talking about very different approaches with different goals and, luckily, for my needs here I didn't have to go so far/deep...

it is actually the same underlying concept ... the "code that does what the tool needs to do" is physically separated from the code that services the "button push" (if the button is visible in the tool palette) or the menu "click" (if the tool is activated from the scripts menu) but can be activated from either. And (as in your tool) there's a way for the Menu version to say if the icon in the tool palette is visible or not. [Because of the way the Lost Shapes Window works, there's no difference between the menu and tool version, but more generally, there may be...]

Rai López wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 8:06 pm

lucasfranca wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 5:47 pm I just realized that I had a problem with version 2 and version 1 as well: When selecting Freehand and using alt to increase Brush’s thickness, for some reason it doesn’t work. In version 2 not even closing the window, but in the 1 closing the window returns to normal.

Oh, this one is indeed new to me. I'm not in front of my computer right now, but I'll check it as soon as I get home and see...

Well I've been trying to reproduce it for a while now with different settings, window closed and open or all I can think, and I've been not able to reproduce it here, neither with Freehand or Blob Brush tools, therefore any other info you could provide about it that may help on this will be welcomed, Lucas, as well as if any other could confirm or not the issue... Thanks.

hayasidist wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 9:13 pm it is actually the same underlying concept ... the "code that does what the tool needs to do" is physically separated from the code that services the "button push" (if the button is visible in the tool palette) or the menu "click" (if the tool is activated from the scripts menu) but can be activated from either. And (as in your tool) there's a way for the Menu version to say if the icon in the tool palette is visible or not. [Because of the way the Lost Shapes Window works, there's no difference between the menu and tool version, but more generally, there may be...]

Ohhh, I think I have a slight/better idea, then... In any case, the good thing here is for some reason Moho allow this kind of multi-location without (apparently) affecting anything else but giving the opportunity of can show the tool in both toolbar and Scripts menu, the key for making this possible, at least under the use I'm giving it here by only one script, since that's what ensures you always have a way to run the script at any state. Well, one of those gifts live sometimes gives you... I guess!

hayasidist wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 2:26 pm I also have a set-up that allows me to (interactively) override the "IsRelevant" function in selected scripts such that they do or don't show as I choose. (And this might well be the basis for implementing something as Wes has suggested re toolset "profiles" for different phases of animation?)

I forgot you'd already done that. Yeah, that's 90% there already.

Rai López wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 4:35 am

Rai López wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 8:06 pm

lucasfranca wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 5:47 pm I just realized that I had a problem with version 2 and version 1 as well: When selecting Freehand and using alt to increase Brush’s thickness, for some reason it doesn’t work. In version 2 not even closing the window, but in the 1 closing the window returns to normal.

Oh, this one is indeed new to me. I'm not in front of my computer right now, but I'll check it as soon as I get home and see...

Well I've been trying to reproduce it for a while now with different settings, window closed and open or all I can think, and I've been not able to reproduce it here, neither with Freehand or Blob Brush tools, therefore any other info you could provide about it that may help on this will be welcomed, Lucas, as well as if any other could confirm or not the issue... Thanks.

hayasidist wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 9:13 pm it is actually the same underlying concept ... the "code that does what the tool needs to do" is physically separated from the code that services the "button push" (if the button is visible in the tool palette) or the menu "click" (if the tool is activated from the scripts menu) but can be activated from either. And (as in your tool) there's a way for the Menu version to say if the icon in the tool palette is visible or not. [Because of the way the Lost Shapes Window works, there's no difference between the menu and tool version, but more generally, there may be...]

Ohhh, I think I have a slight/better idea, then... In any case, the good thing here is for some reason Moho allow this kind of multi-location without (apparently) affecting anything else but giving the opportunity of can show the tool in both toolbar and Scripts menu, the key for making this possible, at least under the use I'm giving it here by only one script, since that's what ensures you always have a way to run the script at any state. Well, one of those gifts live sometimes gives you... I guess!

Here’s a video explaining. But your tool is amazing!

https://1drv.ms/v/s!Ah7UWMCgRFbGibgjpqM ... w?e=XWH0Zh

I tried it with all the same windows undocked, and I'm not seeing that problem here, on Windows 11, version 2 of the script.

It does seem odd that it's selecting the last drawn shape. Not seeing that here. You don't have a custom freehand tool installed, do you?