How deep can I mask? Into nested layers?

madrobot · Post by **madrobot** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:10 pm

Hi
I'm masking.
The layer with the mask has,
(among other vector layers, which are all masking fine)
a particle layer.

I have "mask this layer" turned on for both the particle layer
and the vector layer nested in that which holds the "particle" geometry.

The mask isn't working on the particles.
Is that normal? Does it not want to mask beyond its own level of grouped layers?

Is there a workaround? I was thinking I could meshinstance the mask up in particle layer folder, but the meshinstance won't work across that divide either...

Thanks

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:58 pm

In my experience I could nest masked layers as much as I wanted. I had, however, sometimes glitches in displaying the effect in the work view, or in the preview of my Quicktime codec settings. The render and export was always OK.

madrobot · Post by **madrobot** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:10 am

Thanks Big Fella.

I'll give it another look next time.

Masking seems to be finickey (it could just be me)
but a hidden additive mask wouldn't work until it
was behind the masked layer...
I can usually get it there in the end which is the main thing.

In the mean time, I worked out a fix which is looking ok.
I'm animating pots of beer being filled, and added bubbles
with particles which is looking cute.
But the bubbles weren't masking.
So I started them later, once some of the beer had already poured,
and they follow the rest of the beer as the glass is filled right up,
and continue bubbling in a way which, working on it in the afternoon,
made it hard to stay focused.

Looks a bit more realistic after all.

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:24 am

Particle layers are not considered grouping layers as far as masking is concerned. This means that everything in the particle layer is included in the particle layers masking output. Like all other masking, a particle layer would have to be in a group with what you want to mask it with.

Now you could put everything in the particle layer in a group:

Particle
>>group
>>>>vector
>>>>vector

This would allow you to control the vector masking individually, but the groups output would still be the input of the particle layer.

If that doesn't help clear anything up, then let me know the specific layer hierarchy and desired effect. Or post an example.

madrobot · Post by **madrobot** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:51 am

Hmmm

At the moment I have

Bone
>vector (masked)
>particle (masked but not masking correctly)
>>bubble (masked but not masking correctly)
>beer (masked)
>mask

Thanks Synthsin!

(I have to get this off my chest,
everytime I see the thread topic
I'm singing the BeeGees
"How deep is your mask?
...is your mask, how deep is your mask,
I really waaaanaaa knooooowww.....")

(sorry)

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:26 am

Bone
>vector (masked)
>particle (masked but not masking correctly)
>>bubble (masked but not masking correctly)
>beer (masked)
>mask

Mask? I assume this is a vector layer, perhaps how you're masking in the shape of the beer pouring?

I'm afraid I'm just not being able to imagine the setup here. Is the top vector layer the mug?

madrobot · Post by **madrobot** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:45 am

Does that help at all?
(I tried to upload an animated gif of the result
but couldn't get it to work

and had to drop it due to deadline.)

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:14 am

That should work fine. I don't see the problem, but then again, I also don't see the masking settings or which layers contain which parts of the artwork. Just too much guess work for me, mate. If I have time later, I may try to reconstruct my own version of this, but if you're under a deadline, by all means, do whatever works.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:33 am

Remember that you MUST RENDER to see "nested masking". Nested masking does NOT display properly in the preview. The only masking that displays perfectly in the work preview is single level simple masking.

I just tested out your set up:

Bone
>vector (masked)
>particle (masked but not masking correctly)
>>bubble (masked but not masking correctly)
>beer (masked)
>mask

and it seems to work fine here. I didn't include the top level group layer in the mix.

-vern

madrobot · Post by **madrobot** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:45 am

Thanks a lot fellas!
Thanks for having a look for me.

Thanks Vern, yep I've been rendering.
I'll have another look at my settings.

Synthsin don't go burning your time trying to reconstruct the scene,
but thank you mate I do appreciate your help.
(If you want a look I can email you the file,
but if not that's cool I'll keep fiddling with it this end.)

The bubbles do seem to be peeking through the mask.
I'll get back in there, it's no doubt something simple. Duh.

(I'm having one of those days.
Premiere decided just before lunch that it wouldn't
scale images anymore. Or any clips. No transforms.
Once I got in and used effects properties to do it "by hand" (numerically),
it cheered up and decided to let me do it with the cursor again.
If someone could invent coffee for computers they'd be rich.
Then again I don't want my machine getting up and stepping out for cigarette and coffee breaks.)

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:53 pm

Here ya go Madrobot! I just emailed you the fixed file. Couldn't resist posting the gif.

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:05 am

Well, now that the masking is fixed, could you have a look at the perspective of the beer? *bg*

madrobot · Post by **madrobot** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:20 am

Thanks Wes, what a champion!!

Slowtiger, thanks for your astute observation,
but the beer will taste the same whichever way you look at it.

jahnocli · Post by **jahnocli** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:40 am

Just had a look at "Grounded" -- cool!

madrobot · Post by **madrobot** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:51 am

(jahnocli - Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.)

Slowtiger, you're absolutely right, the perspective is,
to put it politely, crap.

Wes, I have implemented your fix on my files and it
works perfectly. I wanted to talk about the masking
to try to get my head around it better for next time.

I already had a mask, I had hide all, and a reveal mask
which followed the liquid, revealing the bubbles.
I couldn't work out why the bubbles were all revealed
from the outset.

I understand and have implemented your change, which
was to add a subtracting mask which removes any bubbles
not inside the liquid. And it works.

It just strikes me as odd that if you have masking set up
to hide all, and then reveal some things, that you then need
to get in and hide ("re-hide"?) some elements. That it works
is good enough I guess, I just want to understand it.

Is it because of particles or something? Or is it just the
finickey fiddley nature of AS masking, that you need to define
both hidden and shown elements when in Hide all masking?