PlugIn - Merge Channels and Sequencer Tabs?

stefman · Post by **stefman** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:06 pm

Hello,

I'm wondering if it is possible to modify AS's GUI that way that the Channels tab and the Sequencer tab could be merged.

That way keys of several layer would be accessible at the same time...

...and could also be moved at the same time.

Imagine how much this would increase the control over keys and how much this would boost workflow and comfort.

If this can't be integrated to the original GUI would it be possible to manage this by creating an independant timeline window with a plugin?

stefman

Post by **Víctor Paredes** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:30 pm

Wow, it's a great idea to control layers. Sadly, I don't think it can be done with scripting (maybe I'm wrong, but never have seen scripting modifying timeline).
Anyway, it would be cool that mike read this topic and could add this fantastic feature to the sequencer.
I think it would be better if the keys would be inside the layer on sequencer, I mean, it has no sense to use more room for that task.
I look it this way, in sequencer parent layers has consolidated keys of all its children (and children's children) if there is no children, it shows consolidated keys of the current layer.

I'm excited, this idea would make the sequencer 100 times better.

stefman · Post by **stefman** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:20 pm

Hello selgin,

I'm glad that you would find that as usefull as me.
I hope that somehow there will be a way to create this tab .

I think it would be better if the keys would be inside the layer on sequencer

Yes, I agree. Putting the keys inside the layers would economize a lot of space.

This was just the first brainstorming trying to deal with elements that already exist in order to convince as easily as possible.

I look it this way, in sequencer parent layers has consolidated keys of all its children..

Yes, I think that, in general, dealing with consolidated keys would keep the timeline clean.
But, I find that it would be great to have the option to unfold a layer and to show the keys of all the differnt parametres:

consolidated keys:

unfolded key layer:

I look it this way, in sequencer parent layers has consolidated keys of all its children (and children's children)

I know what you mean. You want to avoid wasting precious screen space by filling the timeline with useles information.
But, I think this would limit the control which I would like to get by putting layers and keys into one window. I find that the child layers should not be banished from this timeline. They should be visible in this timeline as well.

And, there would be a way to manage all those keys with out becoming confused.

I think of Rudiger's wonderfull Nudge Keys Toolset which creates a consolidated (master) timeline layer that can move the keys of all the existing layers at the same time. (In the sample images I called it Master Timeline to underline it's function.)

So, all the keys at the same frame would be controlled by the corresponding key of the master timeline layer:

This way...

..you could make general timing changes quickly without getting confused:

stefman

ulrik · Post by **ulrik** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:44 pm

Fantastic idea!!! I love that, it would make working a lot, lot fatser and it would be easier to see what you are doing when you have the key's you want to see at the same place, I love your idea!!

Rudiger · Post by **Rudiger** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:19 am

I like this idea too, and I can't help but think that Mike had something like this in mind when he went to the trouble of adding the sequencer in the first place.

I would like to extend your idea a bit more by making it possible to collapse the layers as well. Using your example, if you collapsed layer1 and then expanded its channels, the channels for layer2 should show up as well. Say you also had a layer3 then the channels it has in common with layer2 (and layer1 for that matter) should be merged together. Then, instead of having a master timeline that's always visible, you could collapse all of the layers down to the document level and then be able to expand the channels to view and manipulate all of the used channels in the document.

Also, I don't mind dragging keys around to alter the timing, but I would like a shortcut key to automatically extend the selection to the end of the timeline. That would make it easier to expand and contract gaps in the timeline without scrolling to the end of the animation each time.

And I should mention that none of this is scriptable. The scripting interface was basically written to support the tools and menu scripts, which were gradually ported over to lua, not as a general plugin interface. To get an idea of what's scriptable in AnimeStudio, you can think about the functionality of these tools and menu scripts and what parts of the AnimeStudio core they would need to have access to.

Blue · Post by **Blue** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:25 am

I like the idea of begin able to toggle which layers you can see in the GraphSequencer. You should be able to see and tweak whatever you want and not be restricted to one layer. I'm not sure how sub-layers should be handled though.

Right now if you want to animate across layers, you have to write down what keys things are happening on and keep jumping back and forth. YOU'RE KILLING ME LARRY! (I think only people in California will get that reference...)

To make things easier what if the keys are shone only for the tool you have selected? So you have the Rotate tool selected and boom, all the rotate keys show for the layers you have selected. Would that be a good solution to keep the spaghetti of motion curves to a minimum?

stefman · Post by **stefman** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:16 pm

Hello,

I would like to extend your idea a bit more by making it possible to collapse the layers as well. Using your example, if you collapsed layer1 and then expanded its channels, the channels for layer2 should show up as well. Say you also had a layer3 then the channels it has in common with layer2 (and layer1 for that matter) should be merged together. Then, instead of having a master timeline that's always visible, you could collapse all of the layers down to the document level and then be able to expand the channels to view and manipulate all of the used channels in the document.

I'm sorry Rudiger, I did not really undertsand what you mean.

Could you explain again, please?
Would you like to collapse certain channels which several layers have in common? Would that mean that you wouldn't be able to modify each channel separately anymore?

Also, I don't mind dragging keys around to alter the timing, but I would like a shortcut key to automatically extend the selection to the end of the timeline. That would make it easier to expand and contract gaps in the timeline without scrolling to the end of the animation each time.

This would be great!!!!!

Blue,

I like the idea of begin able to toggle which layers you can see in the GraphSequencer.

Interesting idea for the GraphSequencer window. And if there were bezier handles too....

Rudiger · Post by **Rudiger** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:38 pm

stefman wrote:Hello,

I would like to extend your idea a bit more by making it possible to collapse the layers as well. Using your example, if you collapsed layer1 and then expanded its channels, the channels for layer2 should show up as well. Say you also had a layer3 then the channels it has in common with layer2 (and layer1 for that matter) should be merged together. Then, instead of having a master timeline that's always visible, you could collapse all of the layers down to the document level and then be able to expand the channels to view and manipulate all of the used channels in the document.
I'm sorry Rudiger, I did not really undertsand what you mean.
Could you explain again, please?
Would you like to collapse certain channels which several layers have in common? Would that mean that you wouldn't be able to modify each channel separately anymore?

Hmm, not quite. Using your example again, I would like to be able to click another type of up arrow next to the bone layer "Layer1" that when I click on it, its child layer "Layer 2" disappears from the view and its channels get displayed under "Layer 1". Say both "Layer 1" and "Layer 2" have translate keys then these would be merged. I would also like to be able to do the same thing to the top-level layers and collapse them down to a single document object.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:48 pm

I get it Rudiger... I think...

If multiple layers have the same "type" of key frame in the same frame they can be consolidated into "one" channel view. Or if the layers keys are on different frames you could view them separately but still move them as a group.

If you have multiple bone layers that control the same character (bone layers for different body parts for example) you could view or set all those keys at the same time without switching layers and trying to "remember" of "guessing" where the keys are for other layers.

p.s. I don't know if like me, any of you have been found muttering a series of key frame numbers under your breath so you remember where they are to move the keys on another layer:

"54, 61, 73... 54, 61, 73... 54, 61, 73... "

-vern

stefman · Post by **stefman** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:30 am

I just thought about another approach for making this tab become reality:

At first, it is evident that this MergedChannelSequencer tab passes over the limits of scripting.

- What can be done with scripts: Keys are accesible by scripts. You can nudge and even create them with scripts.

- What can not be done with scripts: The problem is that this window demands modification of the GUI which apparently can't be touched because the software doesn't provide any lua information for that (am I right?).

But, I'm wondering if, technically spoken, it could be feasable to develop an external window which will not be really integrated to AS's interface. (Perhaps even an application that should be run separately.)
This application would gather all the available information of the keys, layers, velocities, ... and show them the desired way in the external MergedChannelSequencer window.

Does this idea seam realistic to someone?

stefman

Rudiger · Post by **Rudiger** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:16 am

stefman wrote:I just thought about another approach for making this tab become reality:

At first, it is evident that this MergedChannelSequencer tab passes over the limits of scripting.

- What can be done with scripts: Keys are accesible by scripts. You can nudge and even create them with scripts.

- What can not be done with scripts: The problem is that this window demands modification of the GUI which apparently can't be touched because the software doesn't provide any lua information for that (am I right?).

But, I'm wondering if, technically spoken, it could be feasable to develop an external window which will not be really integrated to AS's interface. (Perhaps even an application that should be run separately.)
This application would gather all the available information of the keys, layers, velocities, ... and show them the desired way in the external MergedChannelSequencer window.

Does this idea seam realistic to someone?

stefman

In theory, you could spawn an external application from an AnimeStudio script and send it the keyframe data, wait for it to be closed then retrieve the modified keyframe data and update the animation channels. All of the work would be in designing the gui, which would not be insignificant, as you are basically talking about reimplementing AnimeStudio's timeline and sequencer windows and merging them together. That's certainly not something I would be putting my hand up for any time soon, especially if an other version comes out this time next year, with something similar built in.

stefman · Post by **stefman** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:00 am

Yes, I know that this would be a lot of hard work.

Did you hear about such plans to implement this to the next version?

stefman

Rudiger · Post by **Rudiger** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:05 am

stefman wrote:Yes, when writing this post I was aware about that this would be a lot of hard work.

Did you hear about such plans to implement this to the next version?

stefman

Nah, I haven't heard anything, it's just a feeling I have based on what Mike implemented in the last version.

stefman · Post by **stefman** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:45 am

Ah ok.

All of the work would be in designing the gui, which would not be insignificant, as you are basically talking about reimplementing AnimeStudio's timeline and sequencer windows and merging them together.

Actually, I just used the idea of merging the channel and the sequencer tab to be understood easily. The olny thing I needed the sequencer for was the fact that there several layers are shown at the same time.

So, I wonder (it's just to get an evaluation) if the creation of a quiet bare, unembellished timeline which just shows the consolidated keys of every layer would constitute less programming work.

Please, excuse my insistence. It's just hard to wait one year without knowing if the tool will finally really be integrated to the software.

stefman

stefman · Post by **stefman** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:43 pm

Something like that: