Moho Forum

recently as an experiment I created two particle effects which distributed their sublayers far and wide across the x/z plane...

I found that although they should have been interspersed (ie further away pieces of particlesystem 1 appearing behind closer pieces of particlesystem 2, and vice-versa), they weren't. One particle system appeared entirely in front of the other, based not on depth but layer order.

Is this just a limitation of the particle effects, or is there some way to make them intersect each other?

What if you use particles to populate a field with grass blades, but wanted to insert another effect with flowers, and another with trees? Do they have to be part of the same effect in order to intersect each other?

did you specify the depth in the layer properties?
or with the layer motion tool?

It's not a limitation of particle layers specifically. Instead, it's a limitation of the basic "layered" design Moho itself. Layers can be arranged in front of and behind one another, but there's no way currently for objects in one layer to appear both in front of and behind objects in another layer.

(3D layers are a little bit different because of z-buffering. 3D layers can interact with one another depth-wise. One possibility for the future would be for all layer types to be z-buffered, so that all objects could intersect in 3D, but it's way too early for me to say if/when this will actually be added to Moho.)

both particle layers had the same layer depth...

and both had the same setting to spread particles in the z direction.

I tried putting both particle layers in a group layer and activating depth sorting, but still no luck.

Just an idea, but what if you render the front particle layer against a blue or green background, take it into a video editing program like Adobe Premiere, and screen out the blue or green so you are left with the particles on a transparent layer...then overlay that over your main animation, with the back particle system in place.

Might be worth a try.

risk

Lost Marble wrote: One possibility for the future would be for all layer types to be z-buffered, so that all objects could intersect in 3D, but it's way too early for me to say if/when this will actually be added to Moho.)

...LM, LM!!! I'M WAITING FOR THIS SINCE I KNEW MOHO!!! PLEASE, I know that you are going to do that you must do, but I think that this is essential for the well working of the proyects in Moho, I hope that we can see a feature like this in a near future! BYE!!!

Hey, Ramón, I thought you gave up on Moho:
Ramón, May 31, 2005:

" Finally I found Moho and $bought$ it because I was SURE that it be the program of my life... Well, I'm VERY sorry but seems that I was in a BIG mistake..........Well, maybe some day Moho be the program of my dreams but I can't wait more time... I've spend too much time with this........"

http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtop ... sc&start=0

And are now using Hash Animation Master.


(I guess I am confused, you say you need all these changes to Moho so you can make projects in Moho, but then when asked to post animations you have made with Moho you say you never make anything in Moho.... Confusing!!!)

...I NEVER LOST THE FAITH!!! (Hello Toontoonz) Now I must get a chance in my "animation" proyect because I'm now inmers in other parts of it (printing, preparing presentation and more...), but if IMPORTANT things like this will change in the program I hope someday can return to work with Moho (my L VED Moho, sniff ) ...I was trying AM, yes... and I love the liberty of working with 2D planes with a TOTAL 3D possiblilities (instead limited moho possiblities, like those talked in this Post) But, of course AM is not a program thinked for that and that means slow worflow and other diffulties (appart AM crases my PC like any program do) ...Well, I'll wait meantime and see what occurs, then of the presentation of the proyect I'll see what I'll do... This are difficult times and maybe I'm very confused too...

Of course we'll keep working to improve Moho, but my advice would be (not just for Moho, but for most things in life):

Never wait for perfection. Work with what you've got. You'll always be able to find flaws in any product (or person, place, or thing), and the flaws that you find will often be different from what other people find. You'll never get everyone to agree that "once feature X is added, this program will be perfect". If you wait for perfection in every last detail, then you'll never get anywhere. Sometimes it's best to just get started and find ways to work around the limitations you encounter.

No program is perfect, and Moho is no exception. But sometimes there's a difference between fundamental flaws that stop you from doing your work, and smaller limitations where the program doesn't do exactly what you want, but you can find ways to work around it.

wow.. thats deep..

Yes, "Z" deep...

Dear Ramón (and others who doubt Moho is worth using as an animation tool),

I read a review somewhere on 2D animation software. While there's lots of innovation going on in the 3D animation software business, 2D animation software innovation has come to a halt in the last few years. The only positive exception mentioned was Moho. Other programs are just establishing old habits.

So it seems Moho is in the frontline of innovation. New things are happening here. I want to master the program and be a part of this innovation (as a user).

Don't you?

Good advice, Lost Marble.

I have a feeling some people are waiting for Moho version number 25.01,
where one simply fills out the following bolded items in a form in Moho:
Characters: "3"
Description of Characters:
"Character 1 - Cute, funny bunny.
Character 2 - Talking block of Cheese (sidekick to funny bunny).
Character 3 - The evil bad guy."
Location: "A planet far, far away."
Plot: "Something really funny, but with an underlying serious enviromental message.
Like Monty Python, Toy Story, Looney Tunes and Ren & Stimpy cartoons all in one."

Then one clicks the Moho "Create" button and within 35 seconds Moho takes the information from the form and then
writes the scripts, draws, animates, lipsyncs and does all other video editing work
of a completely finished Animation series of 25 ready-for-TV, half-hour cartoon epsiodes guaranteed to
make one rich and famous and win an Oscar!!!

dear moho people, i love you for this, thank you.

Never wait for perfection. Work with what you've got. You'll always be able to find flaws in any product (or person, place, or thing), and the flaws that you find will often be different from what other people find. You'll never get everyone to agree that "once feature X is added, this program will be perfect". If you wait for perfection in every last detail, then you'll never get anywhere. Sometimes it's best to just get started and find ways to work around the limitations you encounter.

I understand true depth sorting is not an easy task but it is not an unreasonable request. LM has decided to add a Z axis and that's one of the reasons I bought the program but the next logical step is to make it work as good as possible. If I can rotate a picture to make it a floor for instance it would seem logical the program will render overlaps accurately. Same with particles when making a field of flowers. What is the reason for a feature if the implementation is severely flawed? Every program has limitations and everyone will want specific features but this is not a "version 25.01" request in my opinion. I agree with Ramón on this one (well I think I agree ).

Reindert.
www.nobudgetvideo.com