Moho Forum

Stumbled across this set of 5 mins videos when trying to get an idea of how to storyboard for animation.

I know the guy has some commercial dvds that are obviously aimed at being a proper story boarder but the series of free short vids were really informative (for me anyway) and I think would benefit a lot of hobbiests one man band animators..

In particular the ones that cover the composition and staging for movement were of interest.

http://cartoonsnap.blogspot.com/2010/05 ... -week.html

looks interesting - thanks for sharing

cool.. How can you tell I'm deep in research at the moment lol.

I've decided I'm sick of animating bits and pieces and want to do something more substantial. Dont really want to just animate some bones and lipsync, So Im scouring the web for a pipeline that I can follow (that makes sense and isnt overkill).

so far I have...
1. Idea/Premise
2. Script (if dialogue based)
3. Concept design, rough character, Key BGs, styling
4. Thumbnails
5. Storyboard
6. Dialog (if needed)
7. Layout/Animatic - timing etc
8. Scene / character construction
9. animate
10. Compositing / Post Production SFX etc

Of course they can merge into each other and they can overlap.

I dont know yet if I'll just try to do a 30 sec short or something bigger but I know that i want something with a bit of a challenge that i can keep coming back to..


What do you recon, semi-sensible order?

any opinions welcome.
Sven

SvenFoster wrote:What do you recon, semi-sensible order?

Sounds good to me, although you still need a "script" even if there's no dialogue. It's the only way to get the proper story beats down.

You could also put 3 after 7. A lot of people get stuck on design when actually the animatic will show that things will get cut anyway.

Or maybe it's just me - I love going to animatic as soon as possible.

JaMike wrote:

SvenFoster wrote:What do you recon, semi-sensible order?

Sounds good to me, although you still need a "script" even if there's no dialogue. It's the only way to get the proper story beats down.

You could also put 3 after 7. A lot of people get stuck on design when actually the animatic will show that things will get cut anyway.

Or maybe it's just me - I love going to animatic as soon as possible.

agreed. I put the script as an if as I'd heard loads of arguments against but I like seeing it written down.

as for 3 after 7.. i know where your coming from that said I would have only really sketched a few ideas to get general forms.. I seem to have stories and pictures going on in my head at the same time so anything that can solidify my thinking has to be good.

oh and to be fair, my drawing skills have improved no end but they are still very much *pants* anything I draw will look like an animatic

I really want to do each step as if its the only job and try to really enjoy it...no pressure but some real focus.

hmmm part of me is thinking I should make a thread for this and try to do a project from start to finish and get some great feedback on the way, at each step.

I've gotta say I've only ever shown my stuff to mates and think it would be a bit brave, but then again I think it would be great for me and I'm sure there must be loads of peeps who would benefit...

Cant keep doing, walktests and learning..gotta animate something sooner or later lol

think about music as well. Might be "long" (e.g. you're doing a music video!) or sets of short snatches (just "a bar or few" long).

you have two basic choices: a) fit the animation to the music or b) fit the music to the animation.

a) means you've chosen / composed it around your step 2 and it's a "fixed" driver for timing - in effect it's fixed dialogue ... (action "on the beat"; scene changes with passage changes ...) - Click tracks are good for this. (viewtopic.php?t=18874)

b) means you'll have an idea of the music "SFX" that you want at step 2 then you draft it in 6 and then finish writing it / tweak the timing to fit it in 10.

You can mix a and b... (I do!)

I use Sibelius for music composition. Along with the composing windows is a Video window where you can step through frame by frame and then set music "hit points" in the score.. e.g. you want the strings to be pizzicato in (e.g.) "Joe's theme" whilst Joe walks then the cymbal clash as Joe hits the wall... so you can decide to do 3 or 4 or whatever bars of theme and tweak the tempo from (say) 60 to 63 beats per min to make it fit exactly. Plenty of other techniques too!

thanks hayasidist, music had only passed my mind as snatches etc but trying to animate a music vid may not be a bad idea.

I totally get the chicken and egg re music and animation, one of those things where its never cut and dry.

Ive generated a few click tracks in audacity for no other reason than curiosity.
Also plucked a string or two for the last 20 or so years and have a reasonable level of music theory but even I can see that Sibelius is some serious kit. I usually make do with a bit of garage band(which I hate with a vengance) or fiddle around on my iphone using Nanostudio (great if you want synths..but thats pretty much it.)

Moving house soon(touch wood) and will be setting up my new office.. I'm thinking I will have to download the 30day trial of Sibelius when I have some real time to focus on it...I fancy writing a symphony at £450 a pop it may be a bit rich for me unless I can really get to grips with it and get some milage.

nice one

EDIT: unless I can find a student to buy it..£200 it more appealing

Sibelius First is a cheaper option... around 120GBP. It has the vid editing but lacks a few "top end" features needed for heavyweight serious work (no - I don't work for Avid!)

I used it to do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmR8tlPWH64 - and, if you're interested, that was storyboard in MS Powerpoint, music in Sibelius, 15 separate AS files (split up by z and time), couple of pngs in Photoshop for background, composited and titled in premiere. Looking at the dates on the files - about 1 calendar month start to finish. No idea on effort time spent - but it was done "in the gaps between everything else" ...

edit - (ah - just noticed you're Mac - not sure if it's available on other than windows) - edit again -- just checked .. it is available for mac ..

hayasidist wrote:Sibelius First is a cheaper option... around 120GBP. It has the vid editing but lacks a few "top end" features needed for heavyweight serious work (no - I don't work for Avid!)

I used it to do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmR8tlPWH64 - and, if you're interested, that was storyboard in MS Powerpoint, music in Sibelius, 15 separate AS files (split up by z and time), couple of pngs in Photoshop for background, composited and titled in premiere. Looking at the dates on the files - about 1 calendar month start to finish. No idea on effort time spent - but it was done "in the gaps between everything else" ...

edit - (ah - just noticed you're Mac - not sure if it's available on other than windows) - edit again -- just checked .. it is available for mac ..

Sounds more like it... Us mac users are not the devil anymore mate most creative software is will either have a mac port or started on it They have a mac version of "first" checking it out now...
oh and checked your video out.. good stuff noticed you were to scared to sing

there are things that I can do ... and there are things that I think I can do (but I can't really) ... there are things that I haven't tried but I would be able to do if I did try ... and there are things that I have tried and everyone knows I can't do. Singing is in that last one.

hayasidist wrote:there are things that I can do ... and there are things that I think I can do (but I can't really) ... there are things that I haven't tried but I would be able to do if I did try ... and there are things that I have tried and everyone knows I can't do. Singing is in that last one.

lol classic. "know thyself"..... I think I fit your quote pretty much exactly... the secret is to know which one you are suffering at the time.

atleast you're following something akin to real world models of animating

I just do everything in my minds eye and besides writing down a couple scenes, everything else is just straight from my head to AS

I really want to take a couple storyboarding classes and art classes and stuff and probably will in the future once I save up some $$$

I'm so far behind the learning curve it's crazy that I'm even doing this

Thats just the point Kellz, I dont

I always just sketch something, put it in the puter, move it and look at it...move it some more.

I really, really want to do have that cohesive thought out piece of animation. I've got billions of ideas and never follow through so I need to focus and learn at the same time.. been my bless and curse for 30+ years.. quick on the uptake, easily bored and poorly motivated

If the stuff you produce is based on just in your head I'm amazed as it looks great.. add to that your willingness to take on board new stuff, like slowtigers suggestions I cant see how you wont continue to improve and meet your own goals.

Your post influenced me to make a change in the way I work. I have been trying to put together an animation without a clear story in my head. This means I have to re-rig my characters because I haven't thought through everything. I have a general idea and I get stuck on the 'specifics'. I'm working without a blueprint.
I think I can work from a written plan as opposed to rough drawings. I'll see.