Moho Forum

Working with 9.2 with some smartbone head turns. Is layer order not saved as part of the smart bone action? I guess it makes sense that maybe it wouldn't, but also never noticed anyone mentioning having to rekey layer order in the main timeline during use.

Whatever the latest 9.x version is, layer order is saved in smart bones, but it prevents any other layer order changes. If you change layer order in a smart bone and key that smart bone in the main time line, you can't change layer order in the main time line unless you reset or remove the smartbone key.

Ok. That makes sense. Didn't think I had main timeline order keys, but it appears that I do. But removing them didn't seem to work. So, it sounds like to fix this I should probably just remove layer order keys from the action and any that may be in the main timeline to reset with no layer order keys. And then just redo the layer orders only in the action? (hoping that I don't need to start over with all of the smartbone actions)

It all depends on how you want to control layer order.

I have started using a single "layer order" smart bone. I find that controlling layer order only in the main time line can be difficult and confusing. To change layer order you have to select and move the layers. But You can't see the keys unless you select the parent layer. So editing the layer ordering is tricky and requires selecting and dragging layers, and then selecting the parent layer to see where the keys are.

By creating a smart bone in the parent bone layer that controls a whole bunch of different layer order combinations, it's easier to change layer order and I don't have to select and move layers in the main timeline. Layer order becomes simply a bone rotation key.

As I said, I have ONE bone with ALL the layer ordering. This is because layer order can't be "combined". If you have two smart bones that both change layer order only one will work "at a time". You can't combine them. So I put all the possible combinations I might need in ONE smartbone action and use "step" interpolation for that smart bone. If I need additional layer ordering combinations I just add them to the end of that bone action and extend the rotation. This prevents any keys already in place from being effected.

This is used mainly for body layer ordering as it it can have different combinations. For the head turn, layer order is easier because it's always the same. The ears, eyes and hair are always in the same order based on the postion of the turn. I don't need variable layer order. For a body turn, the arms, legs and body can have different combinations.

This is just how I have been trying to do it recently. It may not be the best way. Just trying to find something that allows better, easier control of layer ordering which can be a real pain.

Thanks for the help! It really does seem to me like I understand the concepts at work, but right now I'm still having some issues. I think I'm going to have to sit down with this and look at it a little more closely tomorrow to really see if I'm missing something. It still seems like layer order is working flawlessly with the head turn action, (and I think/thought was the only bone influencing layer order.)

There are no layer order keyframes in my main timeline. And I would prefer to have them adjusted by that single headturn smartbone anyway. I swear that's what looks like what should be happening, but outside of the action timeline it isn't recognizing the layer alterations. I've suddenly got an ear flying around in front of the nose and hair deciding to be wherever it wants.

Oh well, maybe I'll just work into the script somewhere some kind of strange body mutation issue that disconnects character's features from their faces.

If you have ANY layer order keys in some stray smart bone action it will cause the trouble you described.

I have had the same problem before and for one file had to open every smartbone action and check all the layer order keys. Another problem is it is often tricky because you "forget" where the layer order keys are. In my case, I always forget I have to look at the PARENT layer for the layer order keys, and not the layers changing order. I know this for goodness sakes. I know this but always forget.

Another issue is key frame interpolation. If a smart bone controls layer order, and the smart bone rotation uses a "smooth" interpolation the layer order change won't happen when you expect it to. Smooth interpolation will cause the layer order to happen "sooner" because of "easing". When you have layer ordering in a smart bone make sure you place keys correctly so they happen exactly when they should.

What I do is put in TWO keys right next to each other in the smart bone layer ordering. Smart bones don't correctly use "step" interpolation. If you put in a step key in a smartbone action, the main timeline smartbone rotation key won't actually use step interpolation.

Because of this I put in two layer order keys right next to each other. One is the previous order, the next frame another key with the new order. This "forces" the layer order to change EXACTLY at that key frame.

Ok, sorry about this but there must be something fundamental I'm missing. What I seem to be finding is that even if I have layer orders functioning perfectly in my smart bone action during the head turn, that when I rotate my smart bone in the main timeline It does NOT adjust anything of layer order.

My assumption was that whatever the smart bone action timeline does, it will do exactly that when the bone is moved in the main timeline. In all other aspects this seems to be the case, with point adjustment etc. But nothing's happening with the layer order.

Now, if I insert a copy of that action (or reference) into the main timeline it will "work" but that is actually creating layer order keyframes in the main timeline, at which point it's not really functioning as a smartbone control, just as an action instance.

Also, I can see the benefit of having these layer orders controlled by a single bone that is programmed with several orders that you need, and was considering setting something up that way, but I realized that if I'm not getting layer order influence in the main timeline from the bone, it doesn't really matter what particular technique is. So I feel like I'm back at square one.

Any thoughts? Missing something? Need more info on my end?

***Edit*** (Just on a whim decided to simplify the whole process to look at the root of what I expect to happen. I made a Smart Bone with several vector shapes. Rectangle, Circle, Triangle etc. I made a smartbone action in 24 frames and had a layer order change on 6-12-18 just changing which shape was one top. Very simple, and does exactly what I expect in the Smartbone timeline. But When I rotate the bone in the main timeline... Nothing. )

What version of Anime Studio do you use? I am using 9.5.
I checked 9.2 and it appears layer order in smart bones doesn't work.

Very sorry for the misinformation.

Yeah, only 9.2

Dang. Well that's a bummer. Maybe I shouldn't have gotten so far into it without figuring this out first.

Well, at least I CAN animate layer order. Just manually. Not quite the time saver I hoped, but can still get the look.