Moho Forum

Hi everyone,

I have a character that I am trying to rig. I am new to Anime Studio and love all the resources available and all the help everyone has given me thus far. I have watched a lot of tutorials of people rigging characters. The tutorials are for fairly easy rigs. The more complex ones I have yet to find tutorials. So I have my character. I will provide two pictures and (when I can figure out how it all works) I will create a drop box account with the documents to edit personally.

Here is my character separated so you can see how I have them by layers. Head/Right Arm/ Right Hand/ Left Arm/ Left Hand/ Body/ Right Leg/ Left Leg/ Overalls.



I want to be able to rig his overalls to his body. So when he walks or moves, his legs match with overalls. I want the end result to look like this:



I have tried using actions so that when I move the legs I move the overalls point by point to match the leg movement, that didn't work very well and got pretty messy. So then I tried to take out the legs altogether and draw in toes for the overalls, that didn't work either really.

I just want to see if anyone can come up with an idea or something that helped them when they had an issue such as this. I appreciate any help given, and when I am able to contribute in the future would definitely like to re-pay the favor. Thanks!

This can be done very easy once you learn the software.

sbtamu wrote:This can be done very easy once you learn the software.

uh... yeah haha. So how would you rig it? Do you know the software?

I like the look of the artwork, my first question would be: how were these body part components created? Did you import images from other software or are you creating them in anime studio and each segment is a layer of its own?

Even if you're new to the software I'd still recommend using AS to create your character art because you'll have the most freedom with the pieces later on.

If I was rigging this, and each segment is its own layer (though I have no idea what kind of movement you're looking to get) I'd probably do a setup something like this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pxnx4hv4yay50 ... .18.09.png

You'd bind appropriate bodypart layers to the corresponding bones... but in this case you've got a scrunched up and overlapped torso/midsection which makes it a little different. If you're new to rigging, I either wouldn't worry about getting the overalls to do what you want just yet, or just recommend breaking the character into "clothed" limbs, where the pants of the overalls are actually a part of the legs. Essentially an upper torso area(could stay basically the same), a hip region (overalls) and two legs/feet that incorporate the pant legs as part of their layer.

Ddrake you are awesome! Thank you for taking your time helping me. Everything was created in Anime Studio with the add point tool.

That is one of the things I had to learn first in this steep learning curve was how to draw with lines, but I think I'm getting the hang of it now.

Each of the body parts I had put on its own layer. That rig you did is perfect, just what I had in mind. So I had the animation rigged, and wanted this character to be able to walk towards the camera, along with sitting down while facing the camera.

Awesome suggestions! I did as you said and cut the overall pant legs off and deleted them. I then made the right and left legs the pant legs and kept them on separate layers. Is this what you were talking about?



Still need to tweak it to make it look decent, but this is what it looks like together



With it rigged



Thanks so much for your suggestion. I will find a source like drop box and drop the documents in there in the case you or someone else would like to rig it then send it back so I can see what you did and how you did it (if you want).

Again thanks so much!

That's a great and original character! Take care to make him really look like in the first sketch, it's perfect.

You're on the right track, but don't get frustrated. It takes a bit of experience to create a good rig, so don't be afraid to eventually start all over - happens to me all the time. Duplicate your file with just the character layers, so in case of emergency you can go back.

The character view you chose will only allow him to walk forward (which is difficult in itself) and stand and gesture and talk. How many other views you need only depends on the story you want to tell. Usually we do a front view, a side view, and a 3/4 view of a character, which covers nearly all story needs.

If you create more views, I recommend to sketch them on paper first and refine them, befor you try and build them in AS.

Looking forward to your progress!

Yeehaa! I do this all the time!!!!

This is one of my favorite "tricks" or techniques. Making a "continuous" shape but using bone offset.

Here's an example sort of like what you are trying to do:

The "front side" legs and tail are "connected" to the body so that the movement is smooth. No "joints" if you know what I mean. At the same time I would like bone offset for rigging. I simply move "some" of the points away and line them up with the bones that should control them. Leave points that are close to the body to be controlled by those bones. After offsetting the bones back in place the legs are still connected smoothly and are part of the shape.

Hello mtbuck24

I don't know if this is the best way to rig your character, but here is my attempt.
I figured doing this was better than watching TV. I don't really care for TV.

And since I have no real drawing skills, and obviously you do, I barrowed yours.(hope you don't mind. But, you did ask)
It could probably use a few touches here and there, But I put this together quickly and went to Dinner.

Here's the scene.


And here's the File with all the images sound and Anime Studio File.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rv2ywn5f9bxp0 ... 0parts.zip

Good Luck
HammerJammer

slowtiger wrote:That's a great and original character! Take care to make him really look like in the first sketch, it's perfect.

You're on the right track, but don't get frustrated. It takes a bit of experience to create a good rig, so don't be afraid to eventually start all over - happens to me all the time. Duplicate your file with just the character layers, so in case of emergency you can go back.

The character view you chose will only allow him to walk forward (which is difficult in itself) and stand and gesture and talk. How many other views you need only depends on the story you want to tell. Usually we do a front view, a side view, and a 3/4 view of a character, which covers nearly all story needs.

If you create more views, I recommend to sketch them on paper first and refine them, befor you try and build them in AS.

Looking forward to your progress!

Thank you for the compliment slowtiger, that means a lot coming from you! I think your animations are awesome! I especially like the New Year 2013 of having your character change the 2 to a 3, I thought that was very clever.

Thank you for your advice and suggestions! I'm definitely going to keep practicing my rigs so I become more proficient, even if that means deleting everything and starting over. I will definitely have to take the advice of duplicating my files, unfortunately learned that lesson the hard way and I always think it's really neat to hear that professionals (if I may say) make mistakes and have to start from scratch as well. Thank you for that.

I appreciate your suggestions for how I should set up my character with 3 views. I would imagine a forward facing walk would be difficult. A bought a few animation books to help me understand some of the concepts and would love to hear how it works best for others. How would you go about doing that? If it's kind of a lot to explain a link or a video would be awesome, I have tried to find some myself and haven't had much success.

That's definitely where I start first is on paper, or with sketchbook pro. Definitely helps out a lot to get your ideas on paper or wacom tablet, that's how I came up with this guy.

I will definitely keep you updated on my progress.

Thanks again for all your suggestions and help!

Thank you for your advice and suggestions! I'm definitely going to keep practicing my rigs so I become more proficient, even if that means deleting everything and starting over. I will definitely have to take the advice of duplicating my files, unfortunately learned that lesson the hard way and I always think it's really neat to hear that professionals (if I may say) make mistakes and have to start from scratch as well. Thank you for that.

heyvern wrote:Yeehaa! I do this all the time!!!!

This is one of my favorite "tricks" or techniques. Making a "continuous" shape but using bone offset.

Here's an example sort of like what you are trying to do:

The "front side" legs and tail are "connected" to the body so that the movement is smooth. No "joints" if you know what I mean. At the same time I would like bone offset for rigging. I simply move "some" of the points away and line them up with the bones that should control them. Leave points that are close to the body to be controlled by those bones. After offsetting the bones back in place the legs are still connected smoothly and are part of the shape.

Awesome technique heyvern! Thank you so much. At first when I was reading this it was kinda hard to understand while trying to match it up with the picture shown. It took me a while to figure that with the leg bones off-set from the body, the point that was still connecting the leg to the body wasn't one of the dogs spots, but the leg itself. But I think I finally know what you mean.

So when you say "continuous", the first example I had just the Overall Layer (With it's legs being all in one layer) therefore making that one layer a "continuous" shape correct? And when you say "joints" do you mean like the rig that ddrake helped me with where I create the legs to look like pants and have it on it's own separate layer (therefore having to hide the folds with smart bones or a patch when the leg bends)? So with your technique I set apart "some" of the points away from the body (That being his two legs). I then line the legs with bones that controls each of the legs, bind the points closest to the body to the necessary bones. Then move them back together with the offset tool?

Sorry if I sounded like an exact echo of what you just wrote but I tried to apply it with my character to see if I understood everything fully. Again thanks for your help and I would love to see your animation/work. You definitely seem to know what you are doing and have helped me out a bunch.

I will use this technique and post it here on my next updated rig

Thanks!

hammerjammer wrote:Hello mtbuck24

I don't know if this is the best way to rig your character, but here is my attempt.
I figured doing this was better than watching TV. I don't really care for TV.

And since I have no real drawing skills, and obviously you do, I barrowed yours.(hope you don't mind. But, you did ask)
It could probably use a few touches here and there, But I put this together quickly and went to Dinner.

And here's the File with all the images sound and Anime Studio File.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rv2ywn5f9bxp0 ... 0parts.zip

Good Luck
HammerJammer

Awesome, AWESOME JOB hammerjammer! That is so cool that you did that, oh my gosh that helps a lot. I will list all the things that helped me out a ton!

1. The mouth, for the longest time I was trying to figure out how to do a layer mask mouth! But don't really think its possible with a beak mouthed character, because the back of the mouth that I would try to mask with the beak shows right through the beak. That and I'm still trying to figure out the masking part. But that helped a ton! I would have never thought to just put the two beaks on different layers and have the bottom beak have the back of the mouth shape. Awesome job!

2. I like how you use the combs on top of the head of the bird and gave them bone dynamics, I was getting there but got side tracked with not knowing how to actually rig the dang thing!

3. I like how you kept both of the overall straps on separate layers, definitely make more sense that way.

4. Good job with the patch layers that is some smart thinking as well. The overall patch is genius because I knew that one would take me a while to figure out.

5. The smart bones, lip synch, and audio. Awesome! haha

Thanks for putting the time into this! Hey man, you may not think you have the drawing skills down, but you sure as heck know what your doing from what I can tell and I appreciate that a lot. I know it had a few touch ups and other things to tighten up, but became side tracked with the thought of how to rig it. Thanks to you, heyvern, and slowtiger, I have lots of tips, techniques, suggestions, and ideas!

Thanks again!

hammerjammer wrote:
Here's the scene. OK nevermind the picture, I cant figure out how to post an image with this post.

Thought I might be able to help you out with this part. If you want to take a screen shot, I go to the file-preview-save as-png in the AS program, I found that it is imporant to set the dimensions in the project settings to a 1080x720 for the preview png to come out good. Then with this awesome forum, below when typing a message like I am now, next to the options there is the tab - upload to tiny pic - there a choose my png file upload it and grab the right resize dimension that I want for the forum and then click upload now and copy and paste the link here on this message box.

Hope this helps - or if you already knew this - not help haha. Thanks for your help though!

Hello again mtbuck24

Thought I might be able to help you out with this part. If you want to take a screen shot, I go to the file-preview-save as-png in the AS program, I found that it is imporant to set the dimensions in the project settings to a 1080x720 for the preview png to come out good. Then with this awesome forum, below when typing a message like I am now, next to the options there is the tab - upload to tiny pic - there a choose my png file upload it and grab the right resize dimension that I want for the forum and then click upload now and copy and paste the link here on this message box.

I have been on this forum for about 6 months or so and never noticed that Tiny pic thing down there..

Thank you. Thanks for the help. It is now corrected. I feel better now. Its the little things like that, that make Me crazy.

Awesome, AWESOME JOB hammerjammer! That is so cool that you did that, oh my gosh that helps a lot.

Thank you, I glade you liked it. But, please understand, there are many different ways to have done everything I did.
This was something that took me a while to see. There are many ways to accomplish the same thing. Sometimes one way is better than another. I do recommend, watch as many of the tutorials you can find on YouTube. But start with the basics.
Then make your own test file. I call them my Proof of concept files. I'll bet I have created a 100 or more files that visually were not pretty but it was a way to learn how to do something. The best way to learn is to just try. BUT try small scale first.
Trying to learn something and do it on a big project at the same time will just make things harder.
Even after you start to get a handle on things, you may run into a problem, and you will... STOP, save your file and open a new Blank file. Then make a small scale and very basic file that is basically the problem you were having and make it work there first. Then and only then, apply the technic to the original file you were working on.
ANYWAY.
As far as the file I made goes. I did not use any MASK on the mouth for this rig. I could have But it wasn't Needed for this. As you stated, Its was only done with two layers. and the dark part or inside of the mouth is just part of the lower beak. So when I lowered it, only then did you see the inside of the mouth, because its behind the upper beak. You know what they always say is? Keep it simple.
By the way, Here's another tip. Layers are very important and useful. Its how you get one layer OR object behind or in front of another. This is why I have so many layers. It gives you options.
Also, I didn't need to use patches either. It was just faster for me at the moment. (To tell the truth, Im not a fan of patches. Sometimes, they cause more problems than there worth. This of course is just my opinion)

Good luck. Im glade I helped a lot. Even if it was just a little, it still was worth it. Its actually pretty nice being on this side of the fence for a change, Because someone in the forum is usually helping me.

As for MY drawing skill, there not very good. Anyone one on the forum that has ever read any of my postings, knows that MY biggest hurdle is my lack of art skills. THATS WHY I ENJOYED DOING THIS FOR YOU SO MUCH, you did the drawing. All I Did was trace it. Color it and make it work. The fact that you drew the body parts all separated made things even easier because I would have had to do that to some degree anyway. But, I'm getting pretty good at rigging characters. I think I am anyway. Still much to learn.

Again, Good luck and thanks for your help with the picture thing.

HammerJammer

Vern: Thank you so much for reminding me of that neat point trick again!

mtbuck: Whatever you do, I stongly suggest you sketch it on paper first, like the mouth (beak) positions, before you build anything in AS.

And I have a feeling that the boys give lots of advice which would be a bit too complex for a beginner, again ... I always try to use the simplest possible means for any scene first.

Thank you for that hammerjammer, definitely some wise advice. I have been looking up as many tutorials as I can find. Unfortunately when it comes to showing how to rig the character itself their aren't too many that I have seen. I understand for the most part that their are 3 different ways to rig a vector character (any correction if I'm wrong would be great)...I know that there is Bind Layer, Bind Points, and Flexi Binding (ctrl+shift+f) and that in most rigs all three of these are used together depending on that which you are trying to bind and that with any problems that you might be having after using one of the three or all three methods you fine tune and adjust or make different kinds of actions with smart bones.

I have a proof of concept of Cartman a character from South Park. It's just a collaboration of all the different things I learned to do in Anime Studio put together in one animation (that makes no sense at all) from movement, to change color, to camera control, translate layer, switch layers, masking, bones, and all sorts of stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDaXq-AnYSI.

I don't like South Park personally, but a lot of my buddies do, so I made something kinda like the TV show because one it was easy and two it's easy enough to make believable that it might be the real thing (or not).

Even after you start to get a handle on things, you may run into a problem, and you will... STOP, save your file and open a new Blank file.Then make a small scale and very basic file that is basically the problem you were having and make it work there first. Then and only then, apply the technic to the original file you were working on.

That is some very good advice, slowtiger offered something similar. That is why I am particularly excited for Anime Studio 10 to come out with the tabs separating the programs-that will be sweet.

"Keep it simple" is definitely the best way to go.

Layers are very important and useful. Its how you get one layer OR object behind or in front of another.

True, but I think the thing what I'm trying to figure out is... say I put the overalls with out the details on one layer and then had the details of the overall - like the big pocket - on another layer. Is it just by combining the two layers with one bone how you make it work? and then just do the fine detailing with smart bones.

So if you didn't use patches on something like say...the arm to the body. Would you just correct all the with smart bones? I also haven't heard too many good things about patch layers...

Thanks again with all your help hammerjammer!