Moho Forum

Hello All

I should probably already know the answer to this, but I guess I don't.

Is there a way to add points to an Oval shape without distorting the shape? It doesn't seam to matter if I have "sharp corners" on or off.
Is there some magical way to do this, like cross my eyes and face north during a full moon?

It is really annoying when this happens.

HammerJammer

Ok. select the circle.
Go up to scripts (menu on top) and select "draw" then "split curve".
The default is 2. (you can change this based on how many extra points you need,)
This will place 2 points between every existing point you have without changing the shape of your circle.

Epic right?
When I found this out, I was so happy because it adds so much more possibilities.
Glad I can share this with you.

Go up to scripts (menu on top) and select "draw" then "split curve".

Thanks, I knew about that script. My thinking is, there must be a better way to do this without adding all those extra points that you don't need. Usually less is better. But then again, maybe in this case you do need them. After adding the points with the script, I even tried to delete the ones I didn't need but the shape distorted again anyway.
In this case all I'm trying to do is use a circle for an eye and add 3 line off the top of it for eyelashes. (SpongeBob squarepants style)

HammerJammer

all I'm trying to do is use a circle for an eye and add 3 line off the top of it for eyelashes

You don't need any points in the circle shape for this. Just draw that circle, and add 3 lines with 2 or 3 points each. You may select the 3 lines and the circle together to create a shared shape/outline.

Undiscovered wrote:Epic right?
When I found this out, I was so happy

Exactly! I'm actually surprised this hasn't come up more often. I don't know how many times I added a point and had a little twitchy OCD moment at ruining the perfect curvature before I realized you could just split the curve. Then I just went on about my business assuming everyone knew or had a better way. Never even occurred to me to just ask either.

hammerjammer wrote:

there must be a better way to do this without adding all those extra points that you don't need.

Also I guess I don't know for sure because I've either needed or didn't mind the extra points when I did this, but could you just select 2 of the points and split that curve?

but could you just select 2 of the points and split that curve?

YES, but it still distorts.

You may select the 3 lines and the circle together to create a shared shape/outline.

Slowtiger, I don't understand what you mean by "shared shape/outline"

HammerJammer

You may select the 3 lines and the circle together to create a shared shape/outline.

I think he just means that you shouldn't actually need to weld the new points to the circle shape. Just have the outlines overlap and you can just select them together.

Also if you have 10, I think I saw somewhere you can select points and name that grouping as something so they are all selected together in the future.

It's convenient to have vectors connected into a single mesh since you can use the tab key to select connected points. But you can select points from different vectors by using the named point selections.

edit: oops, didn't see ddrake mentioned this already.

ddrake wrote:

You may select the 3 lines and the circle together to create a shared shape/outline.

I think he just means that you shouldn't actually need to weld the new points to the circle shape. Just have the outlines overlap and you can just select them together.

Also if you have 10, I think I saw somewhere you can select points and name that grouping as something so they are all selected together in the future.

I was going to have the eye blink as well, so I though it would be a lot easier if the eyelashes are part of the eye. That way when I blink the eyelashes follow. OH WAIT A MINUTE, I just thought of something! If I'm using an smartbone action then I can animate the two layers or whatever at the same time... HuMmmm, I might be onto something here. This still doesn't address my original question though. How to add point or draw lines off that circle without distorting the shape. I'm sure I'm maybe making this harder than it is.

Oh and as for grouping points and naming them. It can be done in all version of AS that I know of.

HammerJammer

Thanks Neeters_Guy

you can use the tab key to select connected points

I really hate it when I learn something I should have already known. Thank you, though. I guess That's what happens when you jump in the fire and try the fun stuff like Smartbones instead of learning ALL of the basics first. I mean seriously who reads the manual. I'm just kidding.

But you can select points from different vectors by using the named point selections.

I'm not following that statement. Not sure what that means.

HammerJammer

hammerjammer wrote:This still doesn't address my original question though. How to add point or draw lines off that circle without distorting the shape. I'm sure I'm maybe making this harder than it is.

Oh and as for grouping points and naming them. It can be done in all version of AS that I know of.

HammerJammer

Hmmm... well, I'm not currently in front of AS now so I can't fiddle with anything. I'm guessing then that split curve maintains the curvature BY adding exact equidistant splits for the whole shape. So it doesn't recalculate anything numerically for the curve (or maybe it halves it) Just speculating and talking out my backside here...

So maybe there is no single-click way to maintain an existing curvature when you add a single point? Obviously you could always add the point and then re-adjust the curvature.

At any rate I personally use smartbones for eye blinks. And my method I'm doing an adjustment on the curvature of the eye as part of the action anyway, as well as manually repositioning eyelashes. So I guess I've never needed a perfectly round eye/nor eyelashes attatched to it. In fact I found that keeping the eyelashes un-welded to the eye shape was actually more convenient because that way they weren't influencing eye curvature in any way, and I could freely move them.

As far as the naming of point groupings, I was unaware of this for older versions. Thought I just saw something in a video about AS10, but perhaps there's nothing new about it. I'll have to look a little closer. Of course there are always lots of little time saving tricks that can easily slip through the cracks. For example I just figured out that you can use alt with the eyedropper to PUSH a style rather than a using fill, or shape select then eyedropper another shapes style.

hammerjammer wrote:This still doesn't address my original question though. How to add point or draw lines off that circle without distorting the shape. I'm sure I'm maybe making this harder than it is.

Basically there is no magic way to add points "randomly" to the oval without distortion. What I do when I need to do this, is to adjust point locations and curvature "by eye" to get it right.

The trick for the eyelashes is that they don't have to be connected to the eye oval shape. They are just "floating" vectors that aren't connected to the eye so they won't distort the shape. The eye won't need extra points.

Draw the lashes as unclosed vectors "over" the eye oval. Have the ends of the lashes line up on the eye oval but do not connect them. Select both the eye oval vector and all the eyelash vectors with the "create shape tool". When you create the shape, the eye oval and eyelash vectors will share the same stroke style. The eye oval will also be filled. This is "one shape" but separate vectors. The eyelashes aren't connected directly to they eye oval so no distortion.

Also if you check "shape selection" in the translate points tool and click on the fill area of the eye oval ALL the points will be selected including the eyelashes because they are in the same shape.
(this is different behavior v10. In v10 there is no option for "shape selection" with point selection. The transform tool ALWAYS does shape selection. To NOT select all the points of a shape, hold the option key when clicking.)

---------

The other sort of side discussion, is about selecting points:
When shapes are connected you can click one point and hit tab to select the whole connected vector.
Or you can use the named point group selection.

Neither of those things have much to do with your original question. I think it may have kind of muddied the waters a bit and confused things.

For your specific situation selecting the points is up to you and in my opinion doesn't have anything to do with creating the eye/eyelash shape. You could make a group or not but of course, tab to select everything with one point won't work because they aren't connected. Not a big deal. Not important.

One of the tricks for "complex shapes" is to try and remember that the connection of the points isn't really important. As long as the points selected create a "legal" shape, you are golden! Those connections are never seen. What's important is the resulting shape and how the points move. If extra points aren't connected to an oval or circle to keep it from distorting it doesn't matter since the shape will LOOK like they are connected.

Thanks Heyvern

Basically there is no magic way to add points "randomly" to the oval without distortion. What I do when I need to do this, is to adjust point locations and curvature "by eye" to get it right.

Thank you, This does answer my original question. And really the small amount of distortion that happens in something small like an EYE will usually be hardly seen unless zooming in really close. It becomes a bigger pain when working on something bigger like a head or wheel.

Draw the lashes as unclosed vectors "over" the eye oval. Have the ends of the lashes line up on the eye oval but do not connect them. Select both the eye oval vector and all the eyelash vectors with the "create shape tool". When you create the shape, the eye oval and eyelash vectors will share the same stroke style. The eye oval will also be filled. This is "one shape" but separate vectors. The eyelashes aren't connected directly to they eye oval so no distortion.

Ok, that makes sense too.

So for proof of concept I tried two different ways on the left and right eyes. The smaller right eye, I have the eye lashes connected to the white eye oval like I was doing from the start, NOTE how doing so distorted the top of the eye a little bit. Then for the larger left eye, I sort of used a variation on your idea Heyvern, but just made the eye lashes their own layer under the white part of the eye. This way they have no effect on the eye oval.... So then Using a smartbone action to blink both eyes, I just moved all the points for both eyes like anyone would to the closed position. This included the eye lashes of both eyes of course.
Long story short, when using a smartbone the end result is the same, but the smaller right eye isn't as clean looking when the eyes are in the open position. I will say that setting up the smartbone action for larger left eye was easier and probably faster because I didn't have as many points to move and adjust. SEE VIDEO BELOW

View My Video

This sure was a long way around to just find out something as petty as this is. Sorry about that. I'm not always fast, but I am very persistent. I mean, All of this just to find out that when adding points to an OVAL shape IT WILL DISTORT the shape and to just deal with it or make a work around when you can like I did with the larger left eye.

Thanks Heyvern and everyone else who helped.

HammerJammer

this might be of some use to you: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=25299 -- with that tool (**not re-tested on AS10 yet**) you can choose how many points you want in an oval (or cicle or ...)