Moho Forum

Hello,

I would like to make a character with a closed one-coloured-outline - and thought the Layer-Style-Option where you can put an outline around everything is maybe the right kind of choice.

But sadly there seems to be some antialiasing-errors or something... - you can see it at the lips and the hands... it looks like the edge is bleeding out.



Does anyone know how to fix this(?).

Best!

Can you post an image of the problem?

Unfortunately that can happen on sharp corners.
It is most noticeable with a thick outline.
Outline feature needs improvements.

Without seeing any examples, I'm not sure what to suggest but here are a few thoughts based on my experience:

I typically do that sort of thing in comp by taking the alpha, inverting it and then expanding the edges--this will give you a larger silhouette of the image. If you're using AE, you'll first want to use Set Channel to replace RGB channels with the alpha...that makes it easier to do the other stuff. Then you simply comp the original over the silhouette. If this is something you do often, you can create a preset for it.

Re: the AA issue, does it do this appear in an actual final output render? If you're basing the AA quality on a Preview Render (Ctrl-R, note that) this mode doesn't always show AA accurately. You need to look at the final quality result from the Render Animation (Ctrl-E) command or Moho Exporter (Ctrl-B). Let me know if you still see the problem in the final renders.I've used the Moho version of the outline effect on a few projects and I don't recall seeing AA issue in the final quality renders with the latest version.

How are you applying the effect? Are you applying it to individual elements or the groups. Normally, I apply this effect to the topmost group only but it depends on the effect your going for. Typically, I only apply it at the group levels and not the individual layers. (i.e, the entire character group above the Bones layer, or only at major body parts like ArmR group, Head group, etc.)

One more thing: which version are you using? In ASP 11 and earlier, I had noticed a problem in certain setups where image tearing or AA issues could appear that could only be fixed by rendering double-size and scaling down the render in compositing. Sometimes I may even need to add an AA filter (like the free OLM Smoother) top of this. But these issues were fixed in Moho 12 and I haven't seen thse problems since.

Hi!

Oh sorry, I forgot to put the link inside the post. >_>



I use the top-group, I put the effects just there.
I render it with Ctrl+R and as well with Export animation - it stays there.
And I am using Moho 12.

Well yes, it would be comped in AE - and I thought that maybe one could use some effects there - but why is the effect in Moho if it doesn't work correctly. -_-
I thought I could have it easier this way. :/

Thank you for your answers so far!

Best!

Still can't see the image but I'll check the feature here this afternoon. The feature should work in Moho--it essentially does what I described for compositing, but it's been a while since I last used it in Moho.

(Edit: I just remembered, some compositing programs let you expand the edges of an RGB element and will duplicate the edge color, which should result in the same effect. For AE, I think there's a free third party tool that specifically does this color edge expansion effect. (Maybe a Red Giant tool? You'll have to look it up.) )

(Edit 2: Found it. For AE, it's called RGS Grow Bonds and I'm pretty sure it's free. In Fusion, I use a similar tool called Erode Dilate, which I think is part of the free KKD suite. You'll need the full version of Fusion though because the free version doesn't allow plugins.)

(Edit 3: I just remembered that AE has a native tool that essentially does the same thing. If you need this feature in AE, try Minimax first.)

One alternative method is to make a reference of your rig and expand the line weights. Then, place this version of the character behind the one with the thinner lines. A potential advantage in this approach is that you can use multi-colored lines. (Although you might possibly see artifacts at the joints if the lines are extra thick.)

Oh, strange, that you can't still see the pic. :/
Sorry... .

And big thanks for the tips, I'll look them up!

The solution with the second rig behind - I thought of that... but... as well I thought that it might be easier to make this in AE... because 2 Rigs... - makes the scene slower as well.

Thank you so much so far!

Greetings!

Mejin wrote:The solution with the second rig behind - I thought of that... but... as well I thought that it might be easier to make this in AE... because 2 Rigs... - makes the scene slower as well.

It depends on the complexity of the rig, and it may be faster with a reference of the rig. At work, we typically have many animated characters in a scene. I fact, last week I animated 45 fully rigged characters in one scene and Moho was still very responsive to animation.

It did take longer than usual to render this scene though--maybe a minute per frame, and that's using layer comps to break the characters out in four layered groups. (Normally, it's a few seconds or less to render a 'character layer' frame.)

But, yeah, if rendering the effect in Moho is problematic, use AE to add it. It might be faster too.

Well, I normally like to use referenced Rigs... - but in the past I found it annoying to re-reference, if I changed a vertex or something.
(Or the colour of a shape, there it had some bugs too as far as I remember...)

I think I'll not do the compositing - but I'll ask, what the one who does it would prefer.

I know what you mean--it's frustrating when you edit the reference when you meant to edit only the original. How I manage it is I'll append the reference layers name with (REF), so 'CatHead Group' becomes 'CatHead Group (REF)'. This helps keep me aware that I shouldn't edit that layer. (I used to go as far as calling the ref layer 'CatHead Group (REF - DO NOT EDIT)' and coloring the layer red, but this was more for the benefit of other artists animating the scene.)

If you do accidentally edit the reference, just copy the edited keys to the original, and then right-click over the channels and choosing Sync Channels for the edited reference. This sets everything right again. If a lot of channels in the reference have been edited, you might save time by using right-click over the channels and selecting Consolidate Channels first.

Of course, if you've also edited the original layer since editing the reference, you're kinda hosed. Best to just avoid editing the ref layers if you can. The notice written in ALL CAPS usually works for me, but this is where I wish it was natively possible to lock layers in Moho. That would be a better solution to this problem.

Hey!

Thanks!
Well, I did editing the original layer - and if it where minor changes I had to copy the keys to the referenced layer... was kind of annoying.X-D

But if I referenced a rig into a scene and changed it there - to use it as the new version of the rig(via "Break Connection") - this was quite practical. ...

And yes, a natively possibility to lock the layers would be quite nice.

Greetings!

Mejin wrote:And yes, a natively possibility to lock the layers would be quite nice.

viewtopic.php?p=167236#p167236

@synthsin75: Thank you! But I meant - it would be nice, if one wouldn't need a script for doing so... .

Mejin wrote:Well, I did editing the original layer - and if it where minor changes I had to copy the keys to the referenced layer... was kind of annoying.X-D

It sounds like some or all of channels in the referenced layer got out of sync. The channels can get out of sync when you add your own keyframes to the reference...that's normal behavior. If you didn't do this, there is also an annoying bug that might 'blocks' channels randomly--I'm not sure what triggers it but I run into it from time to time.

In either case, you need to re-sync those channels to get the Reference capability back. To do that, right-click over the highlighted 'Not Referenced' channel and choose Sync Channel To Original.

Well, right now I can't quite remember which exact problem appeared.

Btw. - we'll do the outline in AE, instead of Moho... now.

Greetings!