Moho Forum

Since my last question, I actually upgraded from Moho Pro 12 to Pro 13(.5). The Vitruvian bones feature was what prompted the change, and reading up on the store page, it mentions being able to switch any body part.

So I'm new to using them, but in my first test with them, I was able to swap arm perspectives with success. However, in terms of making the torso change angles so my character can turn from a frontal view to a 45 and then 90 degree angle (so a front, "semi-front", and side perspective change), I'm having a tough time figuring that one out, especially given that the points are bound in a certain way to make it possible for my character to lean forward and I'd like to maintain that if it's at all possible.

What I want to know is 1) if it's even possible to make the torso change perspectives (I know it can be done with limbs, but so far I've yet to see any videos or tutorials showing/describing how to do so with the torso) with Vitruvian ones; and 2) what the secret is to making the limbs follow suit with the torso change, so that one arm and leg is further back than the one closest to the camera, while also making it fully compatible with limb flips (by which I mean perspective changes on the limbs where they bend in or turn out) and that sort of thing when the torso changes angles.

Thank you in advance.

I think Vitruvian Bones are more useful for when you want to change the bone structure in a 'sub-rig', and that's not typically necessary for a torso. I might do this if the torso's bone structure needed to change drastically but I can't think of when I'd want to do that. Maybe to change from from a regular bones torso rig to point bones torso rig for foreshortened artwork?

For normal Torso turns, IMO, it's better to use a Smart Bone Dial to alter the artwork or switch it out using a Switch Layer. In many situations, you can just use the same torso bones for any angle this way....no need to change bones.

Where it might get tricky is when you need to foreshorten the torso, like if the character is a super hero and is flying into camera. That said, I did something like this for the first Kung Fu Panda segment on my 2019 reel at 0:16 (See: My 2nd ‘DreamWorks Animation’ Demo Reel (2019)), and in this situation all I did was move around some bones to get the character into the foreshortened pose...no Switch layer or V-bones needed. (Of course, I didn't have V-bones at that time.)

If it's something more extreme, and I'm only going to do this animation once with the character, I'm more likely create separate rigs for the two angles, and use FBF frames to transition between the rigs. An example of this can be seen in the next Kung Fu Panda scene at 0:18. In this case, I FBF-ed the first five to eight frames of the tumble into the scene, but then switched to the rigged Po for the remainder of the animation. This was a lot easier that trying to build tumble controls into the rig. Plus, it would've been a waste of time to figure out how to build that tumble into the rig if I'm only ever going to do this animation once. Sometimes just because it can be done with new fancy tool. doesn't mean it should be done that way. Something to keep in mind when designing/building a rig.

On the other hand, if unusual perspective angles are something I expect to do frequently with the character, then it might make sense to build that feature into the rig. Vitruvian Bones might be a way to go, but I'd probably still just use a Smart Bone Dial and a Switch Layer for this. (I'd have to think about this.)

This reminds me, In Boss Baby, there was one shot I did of Timmy as Centipedeore where the camera is very low angle looking up. I basically used the same setup seen on my reel of Timmy piloting the vehicle, but I put the rig in a group and used Rotate XY tool and widened the lens to get the extreme angle. I probably pushed some points around to make the drawing look visually correct and less like a 'card' that's been simply rotated on X (which is what it was.)

So, as they say, many ways to skin a cat. (Shh...don't tell my cat I said that.)

Scrubbing ahead in my reel to 01:44, you'll see a Boss Baby T-Rex. This was done before we had Vitruvian Bones and I used Victor's clever Switch Bones trick to swap out the sub-rigs. I like to think Switch Bones is the precursor to V-Bones. Anyway, this rig is probably more in line with your original request.

If you watch the video, you'll see the T-Rex 'smoothly' turns from a profile angle to a front facing angle. From what I recall, I basically made two versions of the legs, torso, and head (i.e. front and side views,) and I switch the sub-rigs for the legs and head in much the same way I would do nowadays using V-bones.

The torso, however is just a Switch layer changing drawings, and an animated layer order change. If you look carefully, when the T-Rex turns into its front-facing pose, you can see where the torso artwork becomes a different drawing on top of the two legs. The switch may not be very noticeable in motion because I'm able to trick the eye by having the dinosaur move into that pose while making the switch. IMO, even a very clever turning setup only gets you halfway there, and it's how the character moves that completes the effect. In this case, I might even have gotten away with a simpler dinosaur setup if I had just animated it better.

Hope info this helps.

Note: at around 01:48, you can see one of the sub-rigs floating off-camera in the upper left corner. This is how Switch Bones worked. Vitruvian Bones streamlines this type of setup by keeping the sub-rigs in position and hiding them instead of pulling them in and out from off-camera. This sort of thing is now MUCH easier with V-Bones.

Very informative and helpful breakdown. Thank you.

Thing is though, I'm not going for a gradual body turn (even though when done right, they look really good); I'm going for a more basic body turn with preset perspectives/poses rather than a gradual motion (because I kinda suck at those and it isn't really to my liking or compliant with the style I'm shooting for). Another issue I'm having that I can't really make sense of how to fix is the fact that you've mentioned switch layers, which I have some familiarity with (mainly just for hand positions), but I can't use switch layers for individual components of the body due to layer ordering (unless what you're suggesting is to have entire body poses as switch layers) - my character is clad in armor that's above and below multiple other parts of her body, and if I group everything from the highest relevant layer to the lowest, it'll snag a bunch of stuff that I don't necessarily want to be affected, if that makes sense.

Side note: your reel and animation quality is superb.

If you just want to switch between different rigs and you're not seeking to keep the rig poses automatically 'in-sync', you might want to just use a Switch Layer to switch between rigs. I do this for setups where I need to switch between rig variations of a character within the same project. When you switch between rigs like this, enable Onion Skin so you can try to match the pose of the second rig to the pose of first rig to smooth the transition.

This is basically how the rigs in Character Wizard work and I've taken a similar approach in a few productions. This approach may not be as sophisticated as animating with a single 'all-purpose' rig, but it's quicker and easier to build a lot of characters with multiple view angle options this way. And of course you can still use Vitruvian Bones within each rig where you need 'em.

CodyBDrawin' wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:13 am ...I can't use switch layers for individual components of the body due to layer ordering (unless what you're suggesting is to have entire body poses as switch layers) - my character is clad in armor that's above and below multiple other parts of her body...

This shouldn't be an issue. I use switch layers all over my characters without problems. Any difficulty might have to do with how you've grouped the parts and how you've set up the hierarchy but that's hard to say without seeing what you're working with.

FWIW, I use a lot of groups in my rigs. I find it more efficient to set up and animate complex characters this way. Carefully organized groups can make it easier to find and edit the parts, use multiple Switch Layers within the rig, and also to animate Layer Order for body parts when necessary (like when wrapping an arm from the far side of the torso to across the front of the torso.)

Speaking of organization: I recommend giving everything in the project clearly descriptive names as you create them! I do this not just for layers and groups but also for bones and actions. Trust me, later on you'll be sorry if you didn't do that.

Greenlaw wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 2:05 am ...When you switch between rigs like this, enable Onion Skin so you can try to match the pose of the second rig to the pose of first rig to smooth the transition.

Shoot...I thought this was wrong even as I typed it. I just checked and, yeah, the onion skin doesn't work with a switch layer because the unselected bone layer and artwork is hidden. Sorry for the bad info.

What I've done to work around this is to use the free Epic Pen tool to quickly trace the first rigs pose. Not super accurate but most of the time it doesn't need to be.

Hope this helps.