Moho Animation Forum

Hi.

Should my main timeline be at zero when I create an action?

I've got Moho set so I can draw on any frame. Don't know if this creates a problem, but when my timeline is far from zero and I go to an action, things get weird. They change size and position.
So I thought maybe the main timeline has to be at the beginning to avoid weirdness.

One other question.
Sometimes (maybe all the time, not sure) I can't move a layer or change things when I'm on zero. I don't know exactly what's happening, but I have to move to frame one to make the changes.
Is that normal?

Thanks.

NealF2 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 6:13 am Should my main timeline be at zero when I create an action?

I've got Moho set so I can draw on any frame. Don't know if this creates a problem, but when my timeline is far from zero and I go to an action, things get weird. They change size and position.

When you create an action, the playhead should jump to frame 1 automatically, which is the actual first frame of the Action. So, no, not necessary to move the playhead to 0.

Disabling 'Enable Drawing Tools Only On Frame 0' should be used with caution because you may actually be editing two different frames while in this mode, which can produces unintended results. For example, the drawing tools may be linked to frame 0, but if you move any points using a transform tool, this edit will be keyframed in the animation frame, not frame 0.

Tip: When I disable this option, and draw/edit in an animation frame, I typically copy the keyframes in the animation frame to frame 0, and then delete the animation keyframes to avoid any weirdness. Then I'll reenable the option to prevent unintended errors.

Hope this helps.

(Edited for a few corrections.)

NealF2 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 6:13 am One other question.
Sometimes (maybe all the time, not sure) I can't move a layer or change things when I'm on zero. I don't know exactly what's happening, but I have to move to frame one to make the changes.
Is that normal?

Maybe, if you've managed to move a layer on the sequencer.

Greenlaw wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 10:22 am

NealF2 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 6:13 am Should my main timeline be at zero when I create an action?

I've got Moho set so I can draw on any frame. Don't know if this creates a problem, but when my timeline is far from zero and I go to an action, things get weird. They change size and position.

When you create an action, the playhead should jump to frame 1 automatically, which is the actual first frame of the Action. So, no, not necessary to move the playhead to 0.

Disabling 'Enable Drawing Tools Only On Frame 0' should be used with caution because you may actually be editing two different frames while in this mode, which can produces unintended results. For example, the drawing tools may be linked to frame 0, but if you move any points using a transform tool, this edit will be keyframed in the animation frame, not frame 0.

Tip: When I disable this option, and draw/edit in an animation frame, I typically copy the keyframes in the animation frame to frame 0, and then delete the animation keyframes to avoid any weirdness. Then I'll reenable the option to prevent unintended errors.

Hope this helps.

(Edited for a few corrections.)

Hm. Not sure I understand.
The problem I've had several times is, for instance, I'm at frame 200 in the Main Timeline and make a new action. The action timeline opens but the character is not in the same place as the main timeline. And often it's a lot smaller or distorted. Sometimes the character is not there at all, but if I save the file it appears.

This is just some of the weirdness I've had with creating actions. It doesn't happen all the time. So I thought maybe it would make a difference if I created a new action while my main timeline is at zero.

synthsin75 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 10:41 am

NealF2 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 6:13 am One other question.
Sometimes (maybe all the time, not sure) I can't move a layer or change things when I'm on zero. I don't know exactly what's happening, but I have to move to frame one to make the changes.
Is that normal?

Maybe, if you've managed to move a layer on the sequencer.

Hi.

Do you mean moving the position of a layer somewhere on the down the line of the timeline? I'll have to do more experimenting to get my exact problem so I can state it more accurately.

NealF2 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2026 1:05 pm The problem I've had several times is, for instance, I'm at frame 200 in the Main Timeline and make a new action. The action timeline opens but the character is not in the same place as the main timeline.

That really is not normal. My guess is that there's a transform keyframe somewhere in the hierarchy, maybe at the layer level or in a parent group?

Could also be something going on in a Smart Bone Action that might not be obvious until the Smart Bone is activated on a later frame. This type of error sneaks up on me from time to time. What usually trips me up is accidentally using Freeze Pose when I really meant to use Keyframe Selected Bones inside an Action.

The only way to fix it is to go through the Smart Bone Actions and track down the unintended keyframe. If you have a lot of Smart Bones, you can sometimes narrow it down by selecting layers/bones and looking for unexpected highlights in the Actions window.

Thanks.

I'll try that. I figured it was probably something complex.

I've been working on this film for 3 years now, probably take another 6 to 8 months to finish. Little by little I've been ironing out the bugs in my process.

Should have it all down by the time I'm done.

Yow! That's amazing!

As someone who has their own share of 'forever' projects, please keep it up and finish...I want to watch it.

Good luck, Neal!

D.

Been following this one with interest, as I'm only a hobbyist and I'd have been tearing my hair out by now. Reckon the Freeze Pose mix-up with Keyframe Selected Bones is exactly the sort of thing I'd do definately, probably at 11pm after a pint . Is there a quick way to spot a stray keyframe in a Smart Bone action without clicking through every single one? Or do you just save a new version before each big change and roll back when it goes wierd? Seems like alot of faff either way...

Not really, but here's a helper:



When you select a layer in the Layers window, it shows which actions may be controlling it. The image above, for example, shows all the actions associated with the 'hand' layer. Technically, only the Turn Smart Bones are used for the 'hand' layer, and the others are for the nested 'finger' layers.

If you suspect a layer is being controlled or held hostage by an action, this is how you can check. Also, if multiple layers are involved, you can select them all and delete the selected action(s) in a single operation. The unselected layers that should be controlled by the action will still have that connection.

The above example is benign, but if I wanted to, I could select all the finger actions and delete them without affecting the Smart Bones' control of the finger artwork inside.

BTW, there are some good tools at mohoscripts.com that can help fix other types of Smart Bone Action errors involving multiple layers and actions, all at once. Remove All Actions From Layer, Remove Empty Actions, and Rename Smart Bone comes to mind. I use these guys often when building a complex rig. (In fact, Remove Empty Actions could be used to solve the issue above.)

The best practice is to simply be aware of the things that can go wrong and avoid them. But yeah, stuff happens...especially when you're working on a project at 2 a.m.

Hope this helps.