Moho Forum

Hi, I'm new here. And I'm very interested in Anime Studio Pro.
I was watching one of the animation samples, Le Reine Soilel
http://www.e-frontier.com/images/anime/lib/clip2.html
I was wondering what techinques and tools in Anime Studio Pro did they use?
I want a simliar style of animation for my future animation project.

Also here are my questions about ASP (Anime Studio Pro)
Can you import and export swf files?
Can ASP tween psd(images) files? or only vector files? (sample: I draw my key frames on paper ,scan it, the edit it in photoshop, save as a psd file,import to ASP)

Thanks
Oh sorry for misspelled words It's 2AM in the morning and I'm out of it lol.

I was wondering what techinques and tools in Anime Studio Pro did they use?
I want a simliar style of animation for my future animation project.

ok, i think there is a lot of work. probably they used several switch layers for the faces and expressions. a lot of kinematics bones, and a lot of bones.
it's a little difficult make an animation like that alone.
but it's nice to see all what AS can do.

Can you import and export swf files?
Can ASP tween psd(images) files? or only vector files? (sample: I draw my key frames on paper ,scan it, the edit it in photoshop, save as a psd file,import to ASP)

you only can export to swf, but with the limitations of the format. see the help, reference/export format.

Lost Marble wrote:Here's the easiest way to work with Photoshop and Moho. I whipped up a little export script for Photoshop that generates a PNG file for each layer, and a .anme file to tie them all together.
Put the file in Photoshop's .../Presets/Scripts folder, and you'll see a new "Export to Anime Studio" command in the file menu. Run the script and you'll get a new Moho file ready to use.

Here's a tip: if you create a layer group in Photoshop that has several layers in it, but only one layer is visible, that group will be exported to Moho as a switch layer.

Enjoy!

(the file is in ...e frontier\Anime Studio Pro\Extra Files)

Thanks for your help.

The chief of GreyKid Pictures posts here, you should ask him yourself. They definitely pull a lot of the potential out of the program, but as he's said.. it's all about the setup. Think about what you want the character to do, and then rig for any possibility. There's a lot you can do, and a real runthrough of the forum will show you some techniques that'll bug your eye out. I think a lot of us "old timers" can get a little jaded about the possibilites, we just know.

You'd really have to go through the sample shot by shot (frame by frame?) to list the different techniques used. Their head turns (the holy grail here) are a wonder to behold. What I would say is, learn the basics, and then study the wonders of switch laters and masking. There's (I believe) clearly a lot of individual point animation in there to get around the things that AS can't do itself. But that's just natural, it's software, not an artist. Don't think great work will just appear.

Well, that was long, wasn't it?

You can can export .SWFs, but not import them yet. I 'spect that'll change sometime.

The teening engine pretty much just works with vectors. To do tweening between images it would essentially be a combo of morphing and bone deformation, and thats so much calculation I think it'll be a while before anybody does that. At least not anything like realtime. Someone will probably show up and prove me a liar, but I'm not expecting that anytime soon. There are some tricks you can pull, but automation? No.

That said, there are a wealth of vectorization processes, programs, whatever, that you can use to translate your drawings into something AS can tween.

A caveat - the most flexible way to tween between different drawings is Switch layers. But because of the way they work internally, they require that that each point corresponds to the others in the switch layer. Practically, that means that if you want to use the point interpolation of the switch layers, unless you're working with incredibly simple drawings, you need to make multiple copies if the same vector drawing so that each vector point corresponds to the one in the other drawings, and drawn in the same order. It's kinda internal, but each point has an ID. So for switch interpololation, each point referred to by an ID is interpolated between points with the same ID. That leads to two things. First, interpolated Switch layers MUST have the same number of points. If they don't, no interpolation, period. So that also leads to a bit you can have fun with, if you wanna get all abstract. Each point gets it's ID in in the order it was laid down, so if you do switch interpolation on layers that were laid down in a different order, but have the same number of points, you can get some pretty interesting effects.

Try this. Create a new switch layer, and a new vector layer in it. Use the Circle tool to make a, uh, circle. Duplicate the vector layer layer. Select the LAyer Properties, and make sure that in the Switch tab that you have "Interpolate Sub-layers" checked.

<rant>sorry, aside - Hey LM, Fahim, et al! Where the heck is our linkable copies of icons that we can link to? It would make explaining things SO much easier. Really! I have all the tool icons on my site for that, but the Duplicate Layer icon I don't have. And I'd really rather use your bandwidth, it's your doodad and I'm just a user (and fan). Diddle PHPBB and throw 'em in like the smilies, please. Thanks </rant>

So, anyway, in the first layer use the Add Point and add a point one one side. The shape of the circle will go all screwy, but who cares. Go to the second vector layer, and set a point on the opposite side of the circle. Goto (oh, jeez, I just can't stop that, I learned Basic as a kid, I do that all the time) frame one. Right click on the switch layer, and choose a layer. Go to a frame after that and choose the other layer. Hit play and watch how those two points move.

I've used this (through planning) to delete a few points in a Switch sub-layer, and then lay them back down in a slightly different order so when the layers interpolate, you get a much different shape. Easy to mess up, but a good trick in the bag.

selgin wrote:ok, i think there is a lot of work. probably they used several switch layers for the faces and expressions. a lot of kinematics bones, and a lot of bones.
it's a little difficult make an animation like that alone.
but it's nice to see all what AS can do.

Hi Selgin,

You'd may be surprised to find out that very few switch layers are used, its very time consuming, as 7feet says, in lining all the points up.

7feet hit the nail on the head with the pre animation set up. Think clearly on what you want the animation to do then set it up for that purpose.

@DRAW GIRL

The software will only get you 25% there, it won't do everything for you as with any art it takes a long time to produce high quality animation, a lot of time and dedication to the craft. Understand movment, wieght, timing, all the basics.

If you have the passion to create and the energy to keep going even when things get hard I'm sure you'll get there.

If you liked that animation wait till you see whats coming!

GK

Thanks guys! I will be able to get my hands on AS Monday....hopefully. Can't wait to learn the software and do some basic stuff

GreyKid
I can't wait to see whats next!!

If you liked that animation wait till you see whats coming!

Wow!! Can't wait for that. The previous clip of 'La Reine Soleil' is stunning. It looks like beautifully crafted cel animation. Studying very closely I can see that the line of horses/riders are probably boned AS 'puppets' ...and then there is the closer shot of the two characters talking. Amazing. I can only guess your animators create a huge library of head/body turns etc for later use during compiling the animation.

As an ex cel animator (but not a very good one - thankfully I got into stop-motion where I can use the techniques learnt but don't need to draw as often ) it's taking me a while to get my head around the way AS works for anything other than cut-out style animation but from your examples I can see that anything is possible.

There's certainly a lot of great advice here, but one of the things that keeps messing me up is that I tend to think of the characters as a single entity in and of itself. This works great in 3D, but alas, in 2D it's not even close to the way to do things.

Creating and rigging a character beforehand can be the biggest mistake, and leave you with an unusable character, of course depending on what you're wanting to accomplish.

Here's an example. I imported two copies of the Lenny model. All self contained bones, everything works great if you're using Lenny alone. But I need two of him, so I imported him twice and now have two individual characters.

The kicker is I want them to stand behind a bar (ala rectangle), but I want their arms to be on the bar, or in front of the rectangle. The way the Lenny characters are built will not allow for me to do this, so using a pre-rigged character isn't going to work.

If I'm thinking it through correctly, I have to have a single bone layer, with both characters rigged within this same layer. But their arms have to be on a seperate layer, and to get the stacking order correct I also have to place the bar (rectangle) in the bone layer as well.

This just seems all so un-natural to build characters and rig them this way. But to accomplish what I want in the shot, it has to be built this way (or some similiar way). A downside is that both characters are permanently connected since they are contained within the same bone layer, and there's no sense in even trying to animate them walking up to the bar (all body parts behind the rectangle), then after reaching the bars, have the arms before the rectangle (to simulate their arms being on the table).

It's these kinds of creative workarounds that I have trouble with. As I said, it feels so unnatural to break up characters and other scene props across multiple layers that fall within a different hierarchy. To put my rectangle into the bone layer so that the arms can show above (or in front of) it seems wrong.

Although, I'm not sure the way I propose to do it is correct etiher, and having a more comprehensive tutorials (or more advanced video tutorials) would help tremendously.

What you described... the two guys walking up to a bar... conversation takes place etc...

that is what the... thinking ahead of time is about.

You WILL have to create a setup specifically for that scene. It has specific requirements.

You can put the "bar" above the two "separate" character layers. Then have two duplicated "arm" group layers separate for each character above the bar. Turn them on and off as needed.

This doesn't require having to "mix" the two separate characters. You end up with just... the two original character groups... and two duplicate "arm" groups.

It isn't always easy... or straight forward... that is why you try to think about what you need ahead of time.

Funny... I have a scene in an animation that required the exact thing. This was back before I was... completely knowledgable of how to do this type of thing...

It was even worse because it was at an angle... so one characters arm would be behind her body... but on top of the bar... but behind the bar when she put her arm down.. but her dang body was always behind the bar... yikes.

I struggled with that stupid bar layer. But the end result was seamless and perfect. Only needed on extra arm layer. The viewers of your creations will ever know how difficult it can be. It is the final result that is the goal.

-vern

heyvern wrote:You can put the "bar" above the two "separate" character layers. Then have two duplicated "arm" group layers separate for each character above the bar. Turn them on and off as needed.

A little while back, I put in the request for the ability to use any layer as a matte - this is a classic example of where this would be used. If you can nominate a arm layer as your matte source, you can apply it to the Bar, forcing it to "hide". It saves a heap of work and greatly simplies a scene. The problem with duplication is if you make any changes, you have to change two sets of artwork, as there is not way to have an instance of the layer, just clones.

Now we have more people coding at eFrontier, maybe its time to go back and look at such changes/ desirable mods for future releases.


Rhoel

True it is more work with duplicate layers... I just copy/paste when making duplicate layer changes.

I use a bone mastering script so I never have to duplicate animation key frames.

Actually... the biggest pain for me with duplicate layers... is scrolling up and down to hide and show them all the time... drives me nuts getting that right.

recently... I stopped making the effort. If both layers are identical... I just leave the bottom layer visible all all the time... adds a few nanoseconds to the render... but I'm not there when that is going on... getting my coffee... or taking a wee (bodily function... not the game system).



-vern