Moho Forum

So, thanks in no small part to the advice I got following this initial post, I'm off to a rockin' start with AS. Slowtiger ~~ thanks loads for your shortlist of tips/best practices ~~ I've found they help loads.

Myles your website is an *extremely* valuable resource toward starting out in AS. I put a link to your website on the resource page in my tutorial.

I also listed the AS Wiki as a resource. I haven't had the time to get set up to contribute to the wiki yet, but it's a great idea and I'll jump on board as soon as I can make the time.

Thanks again to everyone who responded to this topic with valuable tips and techniques.

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Hi ~~

I'm new ~~ not just to Anime Studio but to animation in general, so please excuse my ignorance as I ask some questions here while I try to figure stuff out.

First, it seems to me that you can't add or delete points in a model at different slices on the timeline ~~ is that correct? So if I want to morph an object, all the points at t[n] have to be present at t[0]?

http://www2.bc.edu/~nagelh/exploring.an ... gForms.swf

More importantly, I continue to have this problem in doing point animation, when I move points around at later times in the timeline it seems to distort points at earlier times. So the points seem to "anticipate" effects I'm after later in the timeline. You can see it pretty clearly in this example where I'm trying for a squash effect. The ball "anticipates" the squash which I set in the keyframe at the end of the fall.

http://www2.bc.edu/~nagelh/exploring.an ... peed01.swf

Also, When I move an object and set position @ t1 and position @ t2 it seems to decelarate toward the end. Is that built into the tweening algorithm or is it a perceptual effect?

http://www2.bc.edu/~nagelh/exploring.an ... Arcs00.swf

Relatedly, I'm having trouble decelarating objects and I wonder if it has to do with the AS tweening algorithm. Is there some sort of built in cusioning effect?

http://www2.bc.edu/~nagelh/exploring.an ... peed02.swf

Are there any "best practices" that anyone can suggest in dealing with these issues?

Thanks in advance!

I had the same questions
I wonder what the answers are?

QUESTION: More importantly, I continue to have this problem in doing point animation, when I move points around at later times in the timeline it seems to distort points at earlier times. So the points seem to "anticipate" effects I'm after later in the timeline. You can see it pretty clearly in this example where I'm trying for a squash effect. The ball "anticipates" the squash which I set in the keyframe at the end of the fall.

ANSWER: you will need to explicitly set it in a keyframe the time when the ball starts to morph. not doing that will result to something like a continous motion.

QUESTION: Are there any "best practices" that anyone can suggest in dealing with these issues?

ANSWER: good question, it looks like this is still a black art. it would be nice to have a cookbook describing all the necessary techniques to becoming pro. if you don't mind, we can document all these on this forum and also on AS Wiki.

I'm also new so if someone wants to override my answers feel free.

#1. I can only assume you have to have the same number of control points throughout the animation. Otherwise where would the point go or come from?

#2. As answered above.

#3 & 4. If you right click on a keyframe you're given several options to change the type of tweening used. The default is smooth, which is why there's an acceleration and deceleration.

Dr. Nick wrote:I'm new ~~ not just to Anime Studio but to animation in general, so please excuse my ignorance as I ask some questions here while I try to figure stuff out.

No worries. We all had to start somewhere.

Dr. Nick wrote:First, it seems to me that you can't add or delete points in a model at different slices on the timeline ~~ is that correct? So if I want to morph an object, all the points at t[n] have to be present at t[0]?

http://www2.bc.edu/~nagelh/exploring.an ... gForms.swf

Correct on both points.

There are workarounds, such as having one model with more points and one with less and switching between them. This might be the original model, or some intermediate shape between the two models.

For special effects like magic, etc, there is also the common animation workaround (originally used in hand-drawn animation) of hiding transformations under flashes of light, puffs oc smoke, etc.

Dr. Nick wrote:More importantly, I continue to have this problem in doing point animation, when I move points around at later times in the timeline it seems to distort points at earlier times. So the points seem to "anticipate" effects I'm after later in the timeline. You can see it pretty clearly in this example where I'm trying for a squash effect. The ball "anticipates" the squash which I set in the keyframe at the end of the fall.

http://www2.bc.edu/~nagelh/exploring.an ... peed01.swf

Basically what you have there is two keyframes.
1. One where the ball is nice and round, and at the top of the screen.
2. One where the ball is squashed, and at the bottom of the screen.

(Keyframe 1 may be the default frame 0 keyframe, which always exists, if you haven't set it explicitly on frame 1)

Most animation software is like a really really dumb in-betweener.
He starts with the shapes at one keyframe, then draws all the intermediate ("morphing") frames to arrive at the shapes in the second keyframe.

The book "The animator’s survival kit" by Richard Williams quotes an exaggerated example of a dumb live in-betweener being given two keyframes of a head, one facing left and one facing right and being asked to do the head-turn between them. The 3/4 and frontal face frames show only a single cyclops eye, because you only see a single eye in each of the keyframes.

Animation software is like that.

So what you need is either:

A. Three keyframes
1. One where the ball is nice and round, and at the top of the screen.
2. One where the ball is nice and round, at the bottom of the screen, just as it touches the ground.
3. One where the ball is squashed, and at the bottom of the screen.

or B. Change the interpolation of the first keyframe at the top of the screen to "Step", so the ball doesn't change until it gets to the bottom of the screen, then squashes instantly on the next keyframe.

This will work if you used point animation to squash the ball and either layer or bone animation to move the ball.
If you've used point movement to move the ball as well as squashing it,
the ball will hover in the air until the next keyframe, then instantly convert to a squashed versio on the ground.

Here's a really old explanation of interpolation, back when Anime Studio was known as Moho.

Dr. Nick wrote:Also, When I move an object and set position @ t1 and position @ t2 it seems to decelarate toward the end. Is that built into the tweening algorithm or is it a perceptual effect?

http://www2.bc.edu/~nagelh/exploring.an ... Arcs00.swf

We're still talking about interpolation
The default interpolation is "Smooth", so there is some slight deceleration (and probably some acceleration at the beginning).
To remove this effect, right-click on the beginning keyframe marker and change to "Linear" interpolation.

Dr. Nick wrote:Relatedly, I'm having trouble decelarating objects and I wonder if it has to do with the AS tweening algorithm. Is there some sort of built in cusioning effect?

http://www2.bc.edu/~nagelh/exploring.an ... peed02.swf

As above.

Regards, Myles.

when I move points around at later times in the timeline it seems to distort points at earlier times.

This is what I have started calling the Psychic Software Syndrome™ that many people have.

viewtopic.php?t=4606



Myles beat me to it. Animation software is stupid AND it can't read minds.

Are there any "best practices" that anyone can suggest in dealing with these issues?

Uh... yes... and it will sound really really mean. It is not intended that way at all I promise. RTM (or... RTFM which I don't like to say but it does have its place) is not intended to be mean from my point of view. It is just good advice.

Read the help files. Do the tutorials. All of these questions are covered somewhere in the help files.

To be honest a big complaint could be that the help is not thorough enough... this also means you could probably read the entire thing in a single sitting.

Look at the sample files. When I first started using AS (Moho) I opened every single sample file that came with it. Opened each one and looked at all the frames and layers and how they were set up. You can learn a lot doing that.

Don't hesitate to continue asking questions. Sorry about the "RTM" comment... it can scare people from asking important questions... all I ask is that some effort is made. Even I have asked stupid questions and found out it was in the manual. I am a bad role model. I am very lazy.

-vern

solution for the ball impact problem...

http://begonza.com/animation/aspro/aswi ... 008.01.mov

here is the anme file ...

http://begonza.com/animation/aspro/aswi ... 08.01.anme

The "Best Practice" is a highly personal thing, and each animator has to learn his or her own version of it, through (as the word says) much practice.

I've trained myself to some habits which are helpful for me.
1. Before I start to move something inside a scene, I define one keyframe right before that movement. This way everything before this moment in time stays as where I put it in frame 0 or 1.
2. If my movement is just a singular thing and my character shall get back into its initial position, I copy that very keyframe and paste it behind the intended movement. Only after this preparation I start to move things between these two keys.
3. I even copy this "initial keyframe" and paste it outside (to the right) of my scene, just to have it in case I need to return to it.
(1 - 3 have to be repeated for each and every layer I do movements in.)
4. Unfortunately you can't see in the timeline which points or bones you set the keyframe for. I made it a habit to touch every bone (of an arm or leg) to create the initial keyframe, because if I don't, and then animate different bones at different frames, I'll get an unwanted result. This habit needs a bit of planning ahead, but is quite helpful.
5. I try to remember to set the key to "step" to switch off interpolation for the frames following it. (This would be the right way to do for the squash of your bouncing ball.)

First many, many thanks to those who've taken the time to reply to my questions/issues. Your answers are all very helpful! There are a few things I missed from the tutorials and you've pointed me to just those features.

Regarding the Wiki:

ANSWER: good question, it looks like this is still a black art. it would be nice to have a cookbook describing all the necessary techniques to becoming pro. if you don't mind, we can document all these on this forum and also on AS Wiki.

I don't mind at all ~~ I think it's a great idea. Anything that can lessen the ramp-up time and pain in getting started is great to me.

Personally I think a cookbook of "best practices" would be helpful in the extreme to help newbies such as myself benefit from the experience of "those who've gone before". Slowtiger ~~ toward this end your list is brilliant. This is just what I was looking for. Many of the problems I'm having stem from moving points around in different layers. I'm finding myself moving around at different time slices and touching points only to find the changes propagate back and give me unwanted movement at earlier time slices. Touching all the points in all the layers at various keys will help in the extreme. But it also seems that this could get to be rather complex rather quick !

I edited the initial post. Thanks for all the help folks...

Dr. Nick wrote:Myles your website is an *extremely* valuable resource toward starting out in AS. I put a link to your website on the resource page in my tutorial.

Thanks! You might possibly want to link to this page - it's where I've been putting links to other tips, mainly created as answers to questions on the forum rather than any organised system.

Otherwise, the other website will get updated eventually - possibly in the next few days now you've reminded me.

Regards, Myles.