Moho Forum

Okay, I'm making a bone rig of a beetle. The parent layer is a bone layer, and it is filled with numerous vector layers for all the body parts. I'm using region binding with the connecting-layers-to-bones method.

Here's the problem. There are ten vector layers for the many segments of the antennae, and I feel like they're making the Layers Window crowded.

I made a group sub-layer, titled it "antennae", and dragged the antennae layers into it, but then the antennae bones stopped working. Evidently bones cannot control layers contained in a sub-layers.

Is there a work-around? Or is this just the way it is.

Tony M

You can only control first child level vector layers inside a bone layer. In a group they loose the binding.
To work-around this just put all the shapes of all the vector layers inside a single vector layer. Or the minimum amount of vector layers that make sense to your model.
Take account that if all the shapes are in the same vector layer you can connect two shapes with other in between shape(s). That cannot be done if every shape is in a vector layer.
What do you loose? the ability of animated order the vector layers in Z depth or any of the features of the vector layers (shadows, independent blut motion, ...)
Also if the amount of shapes is big and all they overlap you obtain a bunch of points in the same vector layer... To work around that you can create Point Groups (with the select point tool) and give name to the shapes.

The decision of use more or less vector layers depends on the model itself.
-G

Thanks, Genete! It worked!

Like I said before, I wanted articulated antennae, but with region binding for each segment. So I put all the antenna segments in the same vector layer like you said and used Bind Points to connect each segment to a particular bone.

Now I have "L antenna" and "R antenna" vector layers, rather than "L antenna segment 1", "L antenna segment 2", "L antenna segment 3"...and so on, clogging up my Layers Window.

Yay!

Tony M

its amazing how much you can fit into one layer if you dont need to control the z-depth over the timeline, you can almost get away with putting the entire character on a single layer.

There are two split ways of thinking about this, using 1 layer over 100 - some people like the control of splitting everything up (and its probably a leftover from using photoshop, where using many layers is essencial - i was the same to begin with) but unless i need specific minute control over certain shapes i put them in one layer (you can always grab them and move them later if you notice you need to)

for an example, go to my 'The Don' post in the 'share your work' section, and download the anme file.

I'm not saying my way is better than the other - its like starting a MAC vs PC flaming war... but thats my thinking on it - I just find minimum number of layers to be more efficient

For the longest time I had EVERYTHING on different layers. I did this because it was easier to edit. I could turn off the layers and not have so much clutter while drawing or editing the mesh.

What I do now is sort of a best of both worlds solution. If I find a layer is too complicated to easily work on a small part of it I will copy out the particular part into a new layer, make changes, then paste it back in. Of course I have to fiddle a bit to get the shapes back in order... but I still find this useful.

I also will sometimes keep a copy of a bone layer with separate vector layers before combining everything into one layer. If I need to make changes I use the duplicate layer, then copy/paste the mesh to the final layer.

If I need to do layer order sorting... keep in mind there are only going to be a few layers at most that need to change their depth so those I keep on separate layers, like arms legs.

funksmaname wrote:...for an example, go to my 'The Don' post in the 'share your work' section, and download the anme file.

Wow, "The Don" is verrrrry nice. That is a lot of shapes on one layer! I especially like how the upper lip disappears beind the lower lip the way one would want it to. I'm going to study this anme file and learn some new things. I've settled into a routine of using the same few methods of doing things for every problem. Time to add some new crayons to the box!

Thanks!

heyvern wrote:For the longest time I had EVERYTHING on different layers. I did this because it was easier to edit. I could turn off the layers and not have so much clutter while drawing or editing the mesh.

What I do now is sort of a best of both worlds solution. If I find a layer is too complicated to easily work on a small part of it I will copy out the particular part into a new layer, make changes, then paste it back in. Of course I have to fiddle a bit to get the shapes back in order... but I still find this useful.

I also will sometimes keep a copy of a bone layer with separate vector layers before combining everything into one layer. If I need to make changes I use the duplicate layer, then copy/paste the mesh to the final layer.

If I need to do layer order sorting... keep in mind there are only going to be a few layers at most that need to change their depth so those I keep on separate layers, like arms legs.

In general, when I do vector art I think, "A layer for everything," but I'm working on changing that mindset. This thread has been a BIG help.

I'm a little tired of having my Layers Window always over-filled, even when I re-size it to make it longer. I'm constantly doing the old "Scroll down, scroll down, where is it?...scroll down, ah there it is...the left kneecap layer."

I like your "Best of Both Worlds" solution: save a version with the numerous layers of vector art and then create and save a new version with far fewer layers.

There's something elegant, IMHO, about having a character exist in as few layers as practical.

Thanks for the tips, people!

Tony M

check out me recent 'shape order technique' post in the tips and techniques - it shows the methodology used to create 'the don' but using a simpler file to try and reverse engineer

i think thats the key - keep everything on one layer as long as possible till you need to split it for practical reasons... if you name shapes, or just the important ones, you can always select them quickly using the drop down in the styles palette - or save a selection set for multiple areas... this makes it pointless to split every piece to a new layer for convenience as its, like you said, harder to track down.

One advantage of multiple layers:

You can export to Flash and After Effects or any other compositing software to apply various lighting schemes, gradients, special effects, or textures on separate layers for the hair, face and clothes. These layers can also be used as masks, diffusion maps, displacement maps, the list goes on. If you ever decide to experiment beyond Anime Studio's library of effects then multiple layers keeps the door open for a range of stunning feature quality visuals.

I use multiple layers but also try to keep as many shapes on a layer as possible without compromising flexibility.

DarthFurby wrote:I use multiple layers but also try to keep as many shapes on a layer as possible without compromising flexibility.

That is my new way of thinking.

The trick, I guess, is finding the right amount of layers for each character, based on its particular design and function.

Tony M