REALLY good artwork.

[Rasheed]

jahnocli: I think you're getting carried away. The animation in the second film is good, but the artwork isn't that great in either -- just seems pretty formulaic anime.

I think they're pretty amazing looking... if there better out there then WOW... I'd love you show me those....

Watch this traditional cell animation clip (3.5 Mb):
How to Cope With Death
I think this is far better animation than the second film (first film crashed my browser) you pointed out. Scary, unexpected plot twist, funny and very entertaining as a whole. It is a pitty it's only a short clip.

BTW Keep visiting the AWN forum "Show and Tell". Often you can watch quality animation there. The Animation Corner has some good animations as well.

[Venkman]

...WOW... I'm speechless...

This can't possibly be possible by just using Moho, can it? or even using just Moho and expression 3...

The person who made that either had 3d modelling skills or drew cells or something much more advanced than what I am currently capable of... Right now I'm trying to focus on the animations that are really good, yet, did not require advanced techniques beyond what may be possible to learn on my own here in my room.

The two animations I felt were great, yet, are something i could possibly learn to do.

DO I make any sense? Do you know what i'm saying?

i couldn't make as amazing an animation is that with just moho and expression 3.... or can I?

[Toontoonz]

Venkman - Dumb question from me, but have you tried drawing with Moho yet? Have you animated anything you drew? If so, could you post it?

[Venkman]

er..... yea.... i tried something but it is so ridiculously simple.... if you can tell me what you all use to post your files then i can definitly get it up... In fact.... I'd like to know that information anyway for the future.

And yes, I have tried Moho. Though, i don't know enough about it yet to know what it is fully capable of.

I'm still getting some tutorials under my belt

[Rasheed]

...WOW... I'm speechless...

This can't possibly be possible by just using Moho, can it? or even using just Moho and expression 3...

The person who made that either had 3d modelling skills or drew cells or something much more advanced than what I am currently capable of...

Here's the cv of Ignacio Ferreras, who finished this 2d animation in 2002 (he began in 1999). This long period probably means that it was traditional cell animation. He is obvious very talented, but had to study (and practice) many years before he reached this level of perfection.

I'm sure if such talented and experienced animators would have a go at Moho, they would be able to create great works of art. It is the animator who creates animation, not the computer. A computer only makes it easier.

[Venkman]

Here's the cv of Ignacio Ferreras, who finished this 2d animation in 2002 (he began in 1999). This long period probably means that it was traditional cell animation. He is obvious very talented, but had to study (and practice) many years before he reached this level of perfection.

Yea... While that is an amazingly SWEET! animation... it is not exactly something I'm trying to achieve at this moment in time.... I much rather aim for the type of drawing skills in the other two animations I presented... at least until I'm ready to devote the time into learning the more advanced things.... I'm at school for FILM and not animation, but animation has always been something that I've had great interest for... and now I'm just discovering all these great ways to do it on my own.

It is the animator who creates animation, not the computer. A computer only makes it easier.

oh, trust me... I'll be the first one to agree to this. It is just like with film, when all these kids think that buying 3,000.00 cameras are going to make them a better filmmaker, but they don't understand that a better filmmaker with a cheaper camera can make a better film.

i don't expectt the program to make me a better animator... however... Some programs are capable of better things, and if I'm going to take the time to intensely learn a program, i want to learn the one that is capable of better results.

[jahnocli]

I think they're pretty amazing looking... if there better out there then WOW... I'd love you show me those.... It'd probably knock me off my feet

Look around this forum. I posted a whole load of links in the "Animation" section -- try looking at some of those...

J

[jahnocli]

Not an animated example, but here is a drawing I produced recently using the production method I described above:

http://www.jahnocli.plus.com/moho_sample.html

J

[Toontoonz]

Not an animated example, but here is a drawing I produced recently using the production method I described above:

http://www.jahnocli.plus.com/moho_sample.html

J

Sure one can bring a drawing in from Exression (as shown by my example above), but because it has so many points that trying to animate it overwhelms Moho.

How many points are in your drawing? Even though yours is relatively simple, I am guessing thousands.
(You can use the script created by 7Feet to to count how many points are in the current vector layer:
http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1428 )

And try animating it to see how long it takes to move the different parts around and then render.

The average face drawing drawing with Moho tools would be a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the Expression made drawing. A Moho drawing would have 100 or so, the Expression drawing would have 10,000 or more. I created one in Expression yesterday and tried your method again. My computer whirred for 10 minutes to bring it into Moho. Total points in the simple drawing - over 50,000!!!

(And you don´t have to go through Flash to get it in MOho, just export it directly from Exression as an .ai file.)

This method of bringing in workable files from Expression does not bring in a file that is usable in Moho.

[Rasheed]

(And you don´t have to go through Flash to get it in MOho, just export it directly from Exression as an .ai file.)

Yes, but you can use the optimize curves function of Flash to reduce the number of points significantly.

[jahnocli]

Yes, but you can use the optimize curves function of Flash to reduce the number of points significantly

Yes -- that's why I used Flash...

J

[Toontoonz]

So how many points does your illustration have?

As you can see in my example to you I went through Flash and the drawing has over 10,000 points.

Added: And I am correct all that was drawn in your example in Expression was the black line?
Have you tried your technique using brushes S13-S16 - the paintbrush looking brushes? And then overlapped brushes, painted a brush stroke over a brush stroke to paint the fill portion of the character? How many points did that have?
Have you taken any of the detailed samples that come with Expression and tried your technique to get them in Moho?

More Added: As one of my colleagues pointed out when he saw the line around your drawing, "Why didn´t he just make a brush in Moho and use it instead?"
Good point - that ragged line shape is fairly easily created in Moho.

[Toontoonz]

Yes, but you can use the optimize curves function of Flash to reduce the number of points significantly.

But have you done it with a .swf detailed drawing file imported from Expression? (Using brushes other than the solid line brush. Use brushes S13 - S16) How did that work? I just find it lots of work & the files still have lots of points - so obviously I must be doing something wrong.

Perhaps you could tell me your steps of optimizing .swf detailed drawing file imported from Expression into Flash?

[jahnocli]

There are about a thousand points in the drawing. That's a lot, but it's an order of magnitude less than you describe. Why didn't I use a brush in Moho? Because you get much better control in Expression (I thought that was a given?)
I'm not using semi-transparent brushes because I don't want to/need to at the moment. If you want to continue with the lengthy experimentation, go ahead -- I'm sure the results will ultimately prove very useful. Me? I'd rather spend that time drawing and animating.

J

[Rasheed]

I can only give you my opinion, nothing more. Use it if you find it useful. Remember, I'm new to animation, so my advice and statements are a bit inaccurate in places.

But have you done it with a .swf detailed drawing file imported from Expression? (Using brushes other than the solid line brush. Use brushes S13 - S16) How did that work?

Obviously, this is not the way to do it. Moho likes a small number of points and supposedly stores its points in a different format than AI. So you have to adjust your methods to this limitation. Don't ask me how, because I'm trying to figure that out as well.

If you think: there goes the particular artistic style I'm used to, all the better. IMO most "artistic styles" are just mannerisms, gimmicks, easy ways to arrive at an image which was popular in the past, but avoids rigorous analysis of the subject at hand. But I guess you completely disagree with me on this.

I also guess that some of you like Moho to be a kind of "general purpose animation program", but I think it is not. I think Moho has limitations, just as any medium (pencil and paper, language, etc.) has limitations you have to live with, because in the short term those limitations are a given fact.

I just find it lots of work & the files still have lots of points - so obviously I must be doing something wrong.

Animation is always a lot of work, so what is your point? If I seem blunt here: it was non-intentional.

Perhaps you could tell me your steps of optimizing .swf detailed drawing file imported from Expression into Flash?

Sorry, I don't have a working version of Flash MX anymore (it expired). I know from past experience that Flash does a pretty good job at reducing the number of points, provided your original drawing wasn't too detailed (so there's room to optimize). This means mostly smooth curves and large surfaces (you know, those visually appealing "blobs").