Larry the Liger - just sort of fooling around

DarthFurby · Post by **DarthFurby** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:04 am

I hope you make a show out of this. I read the character profiles and backstory. It's awesome.

bupaje · Post by **bupaje** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:04 am

heyvern, cool stuff. I love the way so many people try new things and share on this forum. Picked up some fantastic bits. Need to collect them all in a list some day.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:02 pm

Well here's the first head turn test for Larry the Liger:

http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/larry_head.mov

Still needs some tweaking but I like it so far.

Speaking of the drawing tools...

I did the majority of this turn using the distortion tools in AS; scale, skew, perspective, that bendy thing, etc. Those tools saved a lot of time, very handy.

Once I got it into a generally good position I tweaked the points by hand.

I was very happy with the "assembly" of the switch layers. I had the face part in like 10 different layers. I duped those layers and modified each shape for the switch (lots of LINES! Easier when each on their own layers as I said before).

At the end I copied all the shapes in order, into one layer for the two switch layers... IT WORKED! Couldn't believe it. I did have one funny problem with part of the eye brow shape. Somehow the points got "flipped". I just deleted those shapes and tweaked them from the originals and pasted them back in.

I plan to do a full side view as a separate switch layer. Using the same shapes and "constructing" a side view will give me a complete front to side turn. THEN I can "copy" points from anywhere in the sequence for different head positions.

YEEHAAA! I love this program!

EDIT:

I have been kind of working on this for a long time... before I got Moho actually. I have about 6 or 7 "episodes" written (very short, just a few minutes each). I plan to start out with just one set of lip synch shapes (3/4 view) to start and add more as I go along. Those mouth shape take a while and I will need a bunch for different emotions.

-vern

bupaje · Post by **bupaje** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:25 pm

Wow, very nice, very good 3D movement. Time for some of you guys to look into a cartoonsolutions style set of tutorials for stuff beyond the basics. Love to have some interactive give and take on some topics to move forward. Be willing to pay for lessons that didn't break the bank.

artfx · Post by **artfx** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:23 pm

Wow. That's all point animation? amazing!

As you mention about the seperation into layers, I am surprised by how much you can copy things around in AS and it still remembers the points for switch interpolation. Very cool!

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:50 pm

The only thing NOT point animation is a little bit of the ears. I did a switch for them but also move them a bit with bones... I need to be able to "twitch" the ears later so I need them to stay aligned with the bones.

---------------------------

I have an important question for anyone about lip syncing.

I usually use interpolation when I do lip sync. As a result really complex mouth shapes like this one are a total nightmare to produce. What are the opinions on using "step" animation for the lip sync with this guy? It would save HOURS of work doing that. I see it done all the time in animation (allthough I kind of like the interpolated better).

I would welcome all opinions on that topic. I may do some simple tests to see if I really hate it... or... it aint so bad that I could live with it. With larry it will be a tough choice since he has such a huge potentially expressive mouth... inerpolation would look so sweet... on the other hand the amount of work involved makes me a little dizzy.

If I use simple step switch layers, I can more easily break up the components into sub folders for teeth, mouth, tongue etc and wouldn't have to worry so much about maintaining point consistency.

-vern

Genete · Post by **Genete** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:55 pm

That's amazing. Continue posting, please.

artfx · Post by **artfx** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:02 pm

I am a fan of interpolated lip sync too, though I can see where it can be a lot of hard work. I take heart in the fact that when dealing with a complex model, you only have to do it once, or once per view if needed, then you have it forever.

Rasheed · Post by **Rasheed** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:52 pm

Hey, what a coincidence! I'm trying to animate lips with bones (see this thread in the "How Do I" section). Only, I don't precisely know how to rig lips.

I think you can use bone animation, in combination with switch layers and actions (and perhaps some points animation to fine tune) to create ultra fluent lip movements. You essentially create breakdowns between one switched bone layer and another. With actions you then go from one lip key pose to another.

In this fashion:

Code: Select all

actions -> switch layers -> actions -> bone layers -> actions -> vector layers

Here is what I have come up with so far (and that isn't very much. alas):

There are 10 mouth shapes (see Preston Blair phoneme series):

A and I
E
O
U
C, D, G, K, N, R, S, Th, Y and Z
F and V (sometimes like D or Th)
L (sometimes like D or Th)
M, B and P
W and Q
Rest

So you need breakdowns between each of them. That is actually a lot of breakdowns, but through the actions these breakdowns should be manageable. In the upper parent layer you should only have to select the phoneme you want and the breakdown should follow automatically if you have set it up properly. At least, I think it will work. I haven't tested it yet.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:16 am

Most of my stuff has a ton of dialog. I love using papagayo. I plan on this project to use that new "modified" version of papagyo and use the extended phoneme set.

I might try to do lip synch in AS but... I don't have the words RIGHT THERE in the sound track like in papagayo. I also like the way things are broken down into phrases for easy manipulation.

I think... I am leaning towards interpolation... my "lazy personality" is fighting me... but my "anal retentive obsessive compulsive personality" usually wins in those fights... because being so lazy, the other one doesn't put up much of a fight.

What I might do is use bones on some of the lip syncing switch layers to change the expression during the animation. Have a sort of... non expressive mouth shape... and change it with bones without having to do multiple switches. This could work well I think.

-vern

J. Baker · Post by **J. Baker** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:49 am

Looks great man! I was wondering how you were going to go about a head turn but looks like you pulled it off.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:50 am

Well Rasheed you really got my head spinning with your boney lips!

I have decided to do lip syncing in AS using a combination of actions and bones.

You are right about the "sub actions" being applied easily to the whole animation. I've been playing around with it and it works GREAT!

I can create all the phonemes I need in actions that include bone AND point motion, and apply with ONE DANG CLICK! I love it! I will have to start using actions more. I had never used them much before.

This will open up my options big time. I can tweak specific mouth positions easily in an action using both bones and point motion. Easily create new poses etc. I won't be limited to one set of mouth positions or facial expressions. I can "split" them up and mix and match... tweak to my hearts content.

Funny how sometimes you hear something off hand and it sends you into a totally new direction. I will miss using Papagayo but actually... this may be easier and faster for me since I can do all my work on the mac (I was planning to use my PC for lip syncing with that new modified papagayo).

-vern

Rasheed · Post by **Rasheed** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:38 pm

Hey, if something speeds up your workflow, use it, by all means!

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:53 pm

So I added some teeth:

Animation sample
http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/larry8.mov

-------

Anyway, I found that this character is a pain in the but for the mouth. He has a longish snout and those dang teeth so I have to do some interesting masking so he can close his mouth and "hide" his teeth.

I ended up putting the teeth in a separate switch with ANOTHER switch as a mask. Not a big problem, I've done this before, I use that switch slave script.

I currentlly have 3 switch layers with 3 layers each;

3 switch layers

Teeth switch
Teeth mask switch
Face switch

Layers for each switch

Front
Turn
Turn roar

This is very preliminary and will be expanded and changed as I go along.
--------------------------------

I haven't in this sample, but I am using the new script that Rasheed whipped up for me in record time. You can follow our discussion in this thread:

http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6923

He is still refining it but this thing is cool as heck. It allows you to convert bone motion/influence on a vector to point motion. I am rigging bones in the face to create my lip sync poses for use with papagayo. Using bones to distort the face is so much easier for me than doing point by point motion.

-vern

ulrik · Post by **ulrik** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:31 pm

Wow, the mouth is great, and the teeth!! Great character and animations!

Larry the Liger - just sort of fooling around

Larry Roars!