Hi, I currently have a dog character of which I've created a head turn, so he can look to the front, or look to the side.
I have a couple of bones for each ear which are parented to the head bone and I wish to use dynamics so the ears bounce as the dog walks.
So on frame one I have the dog walking and its head is side on to the viewer as it walks in a sideways view.
On my smart bone action for the head turn, obviously the ear vectors move as well, so I naturally I moved the ear bones to accommodate the new position of the ears.
But my problem is that it doesn't want to play nice. On frame one of the animation as soon as the head turns the ear vectors are sent all over the place and appear to be offset by anything I do to the ear bones in the smart bone action.
Now I'm guessing that I've just discovered that smart bones don't work well with conventional bones, or I'm doing something completely wrong.
Am I missing something and can anybody tell me how they'd go about solving this problem?
Would it be the case that I should forget about having bones for the ears and just animated them point by point if I want to use a smart bone head turn?
Can't get smart bone to manipulate conventional bone.
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
Re: Can't get smart bone to manipulate conventional bone.
Make sure the ear vectors are not being influenced by any other bones.
Another problem I encountered is that if you move bones AND vectors in a smart bone action can cause issues. It's not a problem with smart bones at all, it's moving points away from the controlling bone in an action changes what is controlling the vectors.
Say you have ears that are controlled by a bone using flexi binding. In a smart bone action you move the points for a head turn as well as move the bones. If you move the ear vectors too far away the movement of the points from the ear bone will be "different" because now the points are in a different spot related to the bone. It's hard to explain.
In my case I had almost the exact same situation. I had a mustache controlled by 6 bones with "dynamics" so the mustache bounced a bit when the head turned. The mustache covers most of the mouth and is used for lip sync so I definitely wanted bone control of it.
When I did the head turn, I had to move the parent bone of the mustache so it moved with the head for the turn, and also change the vectors of the mustache for the turn effect. This caused a lot of weirdness because I was using flexi binding on the mustache. To fix this I moved the mustache to its own layer, and selected only the mustache bones and used "Selected Bone Flexi binding". I alos had to make sure I didn't move the mustache vectors AWAY from the bones too much. I did a combination of both bone moving and vector changes being careful to use the bone to move the entire mustache and keep the points lined up to the bones relative position in the action.
My first impression of what you describe is most likely other bones influencing the ears. Use "Selected bone flexi-binding" or simply bind the points to the ear bone.
Another problem I encountered is that if you move bones AND vectors in a smart bone action can cause issues. It's not a problem with smart bones at all, it's moving points away from the controlling bone in an action changes what is controlling the vectors.
Say you have ears that are controlled by a bone using flexi binding. In a smart bone action you move the points for a head turn as well as move the bones. If you move the ear vectors too far away the movement of the points from the ear bone will be "different" because now the points are in a different spot related to the bone. It's hard to explain.
In my case I had almost the exact same situation. I had a mustache controlled by 6 bones with "dynamics" so the mustache bounced a bit when the head turned. The mustache covers most of the mouth and is used for lip sync so I definitely wanted bone control of it.
When I did the head turn, I had to move the parent bone of the mustache so it moved with the head for the turn, and also change the vectors of the mustache for the turn effect. This caused a lot of weirdness because I was using flexi binding on the mustache. To fix this I moved the mustache to its own layer, and selected only the mustache bones and used "Selected Bone Flexi binding". I alos had to make sure I didn't move the mustache vectors AWAY from the bones too much. I did a combination of both bone moving and vector changes being careful to use the bone to move the entire mustache and keep the points lined up to the bones relative position in the action.
My first impression of what you describe is most likely other bones influencing the ears. Use "Selected bone flexi-binding" or simply bind the points to the ear bone.
Re: Can't get smart bone to manipulate conventional bone.
Thanks for the reply Vern.
The thing is that I have done exactly what you did.
The ear vector points were released.
In the smart action I moved both ear vectors which were on their own layers, and also moved the ear bones.
But it doesn't work. By moving the ear bones in the smart action It appears to throw the points of the ear vectors about the same distance in the direction I moved the ear bones in the action.
Is there a tutorial which specifically deals with what I'm trying to do because I don't see it covered in the manual?
The binding is confusing to me. I tried 'use selected bones for flexi-binding' but it's strange that sometimes it works for me and sometimes it doesn't. When I start a fresh project it works, but if I'm in the middle of a project it never seems to work, and I definitely ensure that points are released. So in my case I've just used the conventional bind points to bone. So am I supposed to use a particular form of binding vectors to a bone?
I hasten to add that I originally created the head turn and the ears had no bones. It worked fine, the ears rotated around the head just as I wanted. It's just that I wanted to add dynamic bones to the ears afterwards, so then created bones for the ears which were parented to the head bone, then tried adding the movement of the bones into the smart action to match the placement of the ears. That's when I ran into the issue.
And I really did release the points. I always check that when wanting to make changes. There's definitely no other bones affecting the ears.
One more thing, both ear vectors are in their own layers nested in a head bone layer, and I have ensured that I have have 'allow nested layer control' in the head layer's bone panel.
The thing is that I have done exactly what you did.
The ear vector points were released.
In the smart action I moved both ear vectors which were on their own layers, and also moved the ear bones.
But it doesn't work. By moving the ear bones in the smart action It appears to throw the points of the ear vectors about the same distance in the direction I moved the ear bones in the action.
Is there a tutorial which specifically deals with what I'm trying to do because I don't see it covered in the manual?
The binding is confusing to me. I tried 'use selected bones for flexi-binding' but it's strange that sometimes it works for me and sometimes it doesn't. When I start a fresh project it works, but if I'm in the middle of a project it never seems to work, and I definitely ensure that points are released. So in my case I've just used the conventional bind points to bone. So am I supposed to use a particular form of binding vectors to a bone?
I hasten to add that I originally created the head turn and the ears had no bones. It worked fine, the ears rotated around the head just as I wanted. It's just that I wanted to add dynamic bones to the ears afterwards, so then created bones for the ears which were parented to the head bone, then tried adding the movement of the bones into the smart action to match the placement of the ears. That's when I ran into the issue.
And I really did release the points. I always check that when wanting to make changes. There's definitely no other bones affecting the ears.
One more thing, both ear vectors are in their own layers nested in a head bone layer, and I have ensured that I have have 'allow nested layer control' in the head layer's bone panel.
Re: Can't get smart bone to manipulate conventional bone.
I am a terrible person and almost never read manuals until... the zombies have risen, the meteor is about to strike and Godzilla is destroying the city. Only when at a complete loss would I ever resort to reading the manual. 
One thing I forgot to mention that caused me a bunch of trouble regarding "Used Selected Bones for flexi-binding". This is in the manual... I think. Pretty sure. If you have already set "use selected bones for flexi-binding" and need to change it, you MUST "Use ALL BONES for flexi-binding. This drove me to the edge of insanity at one point. I drove to ground zero of the meteor strike and invited zombies to destroy me I was so frustrated.
That particular new feature is a tad finicky, but simple once you understand the steps. Once I learned that particular step, to set "Use ALL BONES for flexi-binding" after setting its counter part the first time it worked fine. This is probably why you have trouble with that feature.
Trust me, it seems weird, if feels like there is something bizarre happening with mixing vector and bone translation in a smart bone, but in reality it's all working the way it's suppose to. It just seems weird because the behavior is based on how ASP works.
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I think I made a tiny mistake in previous posting. I don't think moving points in an action actually changes the bones influencing it. What may be happening is that the bones are moved already and moving the points simply moves them away from the bone so the influence is different. For example a bone lined up with "an ear" that rotates, would have a different center of rotation if you move the points. The bone still rotates the points but if they move away from that bone it won't look right. If the points are all going "wacky" this is most likely other bones influencing the points.
One thing I forgot to mention that caused me a bunch of trouble regarding "Used Selected Bones for flexi-binding". This is in the manual... I think. Pretty sure. If you have already set "use selected bones for flexi-binding" and need to change it, you MUST "Use ALL BONES for flexi-binding. This drove me to the edge of insanity at one point. I drove to ground zero of the meteor strike and invited zombies to destroy me I was so frustrated.
That particular new feature is a tad finicky, but simple once you understand the steps. Once I learned that particular step, to set "Use ALL BONES for flexi-binding" after setting its counter part the first time it worked fine. This is probably why you have trouble with that feature.
Trust me, it seems weird, if feels like there is something bizarre happening with mixing vector and bone translation in a smart bone, but in reality it's all working the way it's suppose to. It just seems weird because the behavior is based on how ASP works.
----
I think I made a tiny mistake in previous posting. I don't think moving points in an action actually changes the bones influencing it. What may be happening is that the bones are moved already and moving the points simply moves them away from the bone so the influence is different. For example a bone lined up with "an ear" that rotates, would have a different center of rotation if you move the points. The bone still rotates the points but if they move away from that bone it won't look right. If the points are all going "wacky" this is most likely other bones influencing the points.
Re: Can't get smart bone to manipulate conventional bone.
I managed a workaround where in the smart bone action timeline after having moved the ear bones (which obviously sent the ear vectors off from where I originally had them)I had to move the points of the ears back to approximately where they were before.
It feels like quite an awkward and clumsy way of doing it as I'd be very lucky if I manage to put vector points EXACTLY where they were before.
You say that may be how AS is supposed to work, but my frustrations make me shake my fist at AS and ask why they don't make it work in a different way.
For example it would be nice when in a smart action you had a tick box where you could temporarily deactivate conventional bones. In 3D software I've used they do that.
Because I'm imagining a situation in AS where you may have modeled a head of Medusa with lots of serpents as her hair vectors. But then in a smart bone action timeline you want to move the bones of her hair in a head turn to place them with the new vector positions, such as what I've been trying. What a tangled mess you'd have trying to rearrange all the vector points back to where they should be.
Thank you very much for that information about the 'use all bones for flexi-binding'. That is very useful information to know. I had no idea. I'm not sure why this is what you have to do as opposed to just using 'Use selected bones for Flexi-binding' again, as it makes no sense to me, but thank you anyway.
It feels like quite an awkward and clumsy way of doing it as I'd be very lucky if I manage to put vector points EXACTLY where they were before.
You say that may be how AS is supposed to work, but my frustrations make me shake my fist at AS and ask why they don't make it work in a different way.
For example it would be nice when in a smart action you had a tick box where you could temporarily deactivate conventional bones. In 3D software I've used they do that.
Because I'm imagining a situation in AS where you may have modeled a head of Medusa with lots of serpents as her hair vectors. But then in a smart bone action timeline you want to move the bones of her hair in a head turn to place them with the new vector positions, such as what I've been trying. What a tangled mess you'd have trying to rearrange all the vector points back to where they should be.
Thank you very much for that information about the 'use all bones for flexi-binding'. That is very useful information to know. I had no idea. I'm not sure why this is what you have to do as opposed to just using 'Use selected bones for Flexi-binding' again, as it makes no sense to me, but thank you anyway.