Neck and the Hair Behind It

[TheMinahBird]

I've been watching some really complex puppet animation like Monster High and MLP (which is infamous for it's good flash animation).

I also studied TDI:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_8kIJ ... sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_8kIJ ... sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_8kIJ ... sp=sharing

They had complicated designs and are very good.

However, would it be possible to make the back hair/hair behind the neck and neck be in the same switch layer, but allow the neck to be mobile as its own layer without being together rigged as a whole item?

The reason I ask is because I think it would be more convenient if the head and hair were all together without having to activate layer order and go through all that smartbone rigging and etc.

All of the hair in my practices has the back hair behind the neck, both on separate layers.

Is there anyway to make the hair behind the neck correspond to a switch layer or be in a swirch layer with the rest of the head? It'll help more with making a character look behind. , or a behind 3/4ths view.

[dkwroot]

You should group the neck with the torso, not the head. If you want to do a head turn and not use smart bones or layer order, you'll need to place the hair in groups and then place the groups within switch layers. In general, you should have three switch layers, one in the foreground(in front of everything), one in the mid-ground (between the ears and face) and one in the background (Behind everything). The groups of hair within the switch layers would be named based on the direction you want your character to face, so FV for front view, 3Q for Quarter turn, etc.

EXAMPLE:
-HAIR FOREGROUND (SWITCH LAYER)
----FV (GROUP LAYER)
--------FRONT HAIR(VECTOR)
--------HAIR TWIRL(VECTOR)
----3Q(GROUP LAYER)
--------FRONT HAIR(VECTOR)

-HEAD (SWITCH LAYER)
----FV
--------FACE (VECTOR LAYER)
--------HAIR MIDGROUND (SWITCH LAYER)
-------------FV (GROUP LAYER)
---------------------SIDE HAIR (VECTOR)
---------------------CURL (VECTOR)
-------------3Q (GROUP LAYER)
---------------------SIDE HAIR (VECTOR)
---------------------HAIR TWIRL (VECTOR)
--------EAR_LEFT (VECTOR LAYER)
--------EAR_RIGHT (VECTOR LAYER)

-ARM LEFT (GROUP)

-ARM RIGHT (GROUP)

-BODY+NECK(GROUP LAYER)

-LEGS(GROUP LAYER)

-HAIR BACKGROUND(SWITCH LAYER)
------FV(GROUP)
-------------BACK HAIR (VECTOR LAYER)
------3Q(GROUP)
-------------BACK HAIR(VECTOR LAYER)
-------------CURL (VECTOR LAYER)


Notice how the vector Layers "HAIR TWIRL" and "CURL" got shifted without having to mess with layer ordering.


When you want to turn the character's head to a different view, you'd go to the 3 different switch layers and switch the active group of hair segments to the direction you want. Just keep in mind that this method creates a lot of duplicate hair layers, so if you change anything you'll have to copy the change and paste it to the duplicates to keep everything together.

In my opinion, this is the one of the best ways to work with layer order as it's more stable than the sometimes problematic animated layer ordering system currently in place. When Anime Studio finally gets itself together and adds layer instancing, this method will probably dominate.


Anyway, I looked at the My little pony flash puppets a few months ago and it was a pretty simple looking rig. I was far more impressing with the rigging techniques in a show called "Ever After High" which was created by the studio that made Monster High. I'm in the process of dissecting their rigging techniques and building a tutorial series about it.

[TheMinahBird]

Ever After High!

Oh thank goodness I'm not the only one who thought the animation was gorgeous, the program used was Toon Boom Harmony (I am a stalker yes..) and the way they get the hair and facial movements so beautiful is the deformers they put around them. I honestly wish someone would make a script so one can try and mimic the animation style.

I also agree about MLP, but since the simplicity doesn't seem to distract anyone and it is easy to mimic I enjoy practicing the style as well.

[TheMinahBird]

Also thank you for the help I am going to experiment this method now.

I just had to gush about EAH in a post first haha.

[TheMinahBird]

What did you mean exactly by "Hair Twirl" and "Curl"? :p

Could you further elaborate?

[dkwroot]

Ever After High!

Oh thank goodness I'm not the only one who thought the animation was gorgeous, the program used was Toon Boom Harmony (I am a stalker yes..) and the way they get the hair and facial movements so beautiful is the deformers they put around them. I honestly wish someone would make a script so one can try and mimic the animation style.

I also agree about MLP, but since the simplicity doesn't seem to distract anyone and it is easy to mimic I enjoy practicing the style as well.

EAH has some of the best Animation in the industry, they're really redefining what can be done with cut-out animation. I understand that they're making a full movie which should be really interesting. I think they're playing catch up with MLP and Equestria Girls which is pretty much dominating the genre at the moment. I'm curious to see where this little competition goes.

Yeah, you're the first person I've met on the forum that seems to share my interest in this type of art style. I'll gladly share notes.

What did you mean exactly by "Hair Twirl" and "Curl"? :p

Could you further elaborate?

Twirls and Curls are often used interchangeably by people, but they just deal with how things spin around a particular axis. If a hair strand spins around the Y-Axis it's usually called a twirl and if it goes around the X or Z axis, it's a curl. Knowing the difference can make rigging a little easier to navigate. Anyway, I think Rarity is the best example of this concept seeing as she has both twirls and curls.

[jahnocli]

Ha! I didn't know twirls and curls each had their own unique methodologies! You really can learn something new every day; it's remembering it that's the problem...

[dkwroot]

Ha! I didn't know twirls and curls each had their own unique methodologies! You really can learn something new every day; it's remembering it that's the problem...

Just think of a ribbon dancer. When a ribbon dancer is spinning around, it's called twirling. Look at the wand in the picture and just think of it and the dancer as the Y axis.



In contrast, a weight lifter "curls" weights. If you curl your arm like you were lifting weights, you'll notice that your elbow is rotating around the X or Z axis.

This is somewhat useful information to know, because you'd never say that you 'twirled' weights or that a dancer spun into a 'curl'.

[TheMinahBird]

Ever After High!

Oh thank goodness I'm not the only one who thought the animation was gorgeous, the program used was Toon Boom Harmony (I am a stalker yes..) and the way they get the hair and facial movements so beautiful is the deformers they put around them. I honestly wish someone would make a script so one can try and mimic the animation style.

I also agree about MLP, but since the simplicity doesn't seem to distract anyone and it is easy to mimic I enjoy practicing the style as well.

EAH has some of the best Animation in the industry, they're really redefining what can be done with cut-out animation. I understand that they're making a full movie which should be really interesting. I think they're playing catch up with MLP and Equestria Girls which is pretty much dominating the genre at the moment. I'm curious to see where this little competition goes.

Yeah, you're the first person I've met on the forum that seems to share my interest in this type of art style. I'll gladly share notes.

What did you mean exactly by "Hair Twirl" and "Curl"? :p

Could you further elaborate?

Twirls and Curls are often used interchangeably by people, but they just deal with how things spin around a particular axis. If a hair strand spins around the Y-Axis it's usually called a twirl and if it goes around the X or Z axis, it's a curl. Knowing the difference can make rigging a little easier to navigate. Anyway, I think Rarity is the best example of this concept seeing as she has both twirls and curls.

Now I see what you mean! Kind of like that extending piece of hair that you can easily see in the animation of the show, kind of like there is a base to the hair then a piece at the bottom that moves or twirls/curls if you will. I see it all the time in Pinkie Pie's hair and it is so distracting for me. I actually just stare at the rigging and the way the models are set up getting distracted by the animation. And thank you, I'd be more than happy to see your notes.

I'm going to try and rig a character that has curls and twirls now, if I don't have another question later on during the process.

[TheMinahBird]

Ok ok, so what is the front hair in relation to the curl? I see the 3Q doesn't have a "Twirl" (or Curl).

Also, what if I wanted to design a more complex character with this method? Let's say a, not completely smooth but still good 360 turn?




Wouldn't layer ordering still have to take place to move the back hair?

[dkwroot]

Twirls and Curls are just a naming method and don't have anything to do with actual rigging. I just like to name them like this way to keep track of my hair pieces. Not all characters have curls or twirls, so don't worry about this too much.

The important thing that I'm trying to explain to you is that you can simulate moving hair parts around by having copies of the hair in switch layers that are already in place. These copies are hidden until you activate them.

If you switch a hair piece that its front of your character's face OFF and then turn ON a copy of that hair that's behind the face, you can make it look like you moved the hair piece behind the face without having to mess with layer ordering. Does that make sense? You didn't actually move a hair piece, just just hide the one that's in front of something and reveal a copy that's behind.

[TheMinahBird]

Oh! See I thought it was a denoted name or method, or something like that.

But I get what you mean now, it has became more clear.

So how is the EAH project going? I am very intrigued!

[dkwroot]

Oh! See I thought it was a denoted name or method, or something like that.

But I get what you mean now, it has became more clear.

So how is the EAH project going? I am very intrigued!

It's going really well. I'm not going to make my rig in the tutorial look exactly like the rigs from EAH or use any of the show assets(copyright reasons), but the art and design looks 'influenced' by their style. The rigging process is going to be pretty much spot-on for the show, which is the really important part.

You can actually see the rig in a video I made about layer depth. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26735

I'm going to assemble the entire rig and get it fully operational and even do a short animation with it for the tutorial.

[TheMinahBird]

I'm really excited because I've been trying to break down the characters with my eyes and see what I can mimic in AS but the puppets are way more complicated, so I'm ready to watch these tutorials open minded!