Emptying my bag

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Nicohk92
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Emptying my bag

Post by Nicohk92 »

Just a quick rambling while I'm exporting what was supposed to be a quick in between motion graphic project I decided to do with AS since I am in the middle of climbing another learning curve with it.

Along the manuals and tutorials, this forum was my go to place for any problem so I find normal to share. A few notes on this particular experience:


- I spent most of last night just pulling my hairs out about masking and could not find the solution. I had to create a magnifier which would show images in color while outside of it is in B&W. I duplicated my images group and put one on top of white with luminosity blend mode for the B&W (I welcome other ideas), and so on top I had to mask the colored group in the shape of a circle. So far so good, but of course, I wanted to add a minimum of reflection type shapes to make believe it's glass so I needed to add a new layer on top of that masked circle.There are some useful posts about this problem but still no real solution to have linked moving layers separated in a mask structure by other stuff. The only work around I read was to use bones. So here I am at 5 in the morning going back to frame 0 where everything is all over the place and camera movement drives you nuts (until you realize turning on the immune setting helps a great deal). So I created a smart bone for the size and the reflections, one bone to make the magnifier move and it got sorted out but what an ordeal.


- Next I felt my magnifier was lacking something: a bulge effect of course, to actually magnify, which is usually standard in more generalist programs and so I was a bit sad. And so I tried to rig my image group with bones on each sides to hold it in place and ran some tests on the behavior of a simple bone flexi-binded in the center. I concluded after an hour that there doesn't exist the possibility to just brush over images to distort them, the bone is always stuck wherever it is.
And so I told myself that if I make my magnifier follow a path, i could try to set up these kinds of complicated rigs I've seen here and there where bones interact with each other. I realized I 'm far from reaching that level as I wasn't even able to make the bone holding the magnifier to follow any path.

I gave up on making that bulge effect and went on animating the magnifier around the images. And yet I faced another hic-up. It seems the cmd key on my mac is ineffective with AS and so I couldn't modify the motion path. I definitely ruled out user error on that one. I had already noticed I cannot reorder shapes, use the jump to key shortcut and now this. I haven't finished troubleshooting and my wacom tablet could be the culpitr but if not, SmithMicro 's gotta look into it seriously. So i used more keyframes instead, which by the way I couldn't fine-tune in the motion graph since there are no bezier handles to be found. So either bezier handles are activated via cmd key which doesn't work, or motion graph is just there for decoration. I'd love some feedback on this if possible.


Render is done and so i'll return to it but thank you for taking the time to read this. As much a catharsis for me as a good example of the kind of work cessions users have to go through. It's all very fun and interesting and I can very well write a post about all the things I love about AS. Nevertheless, I mention several problems and unknowns here. Some of this things have stayed unsolved to me for years (yes, years). I admit sometimes asking silly questions on this forum, which I figure out after re-reading the documentation or browsing through the menus, and so at time's, silence from the veterans is indicated. However, the doc is by no mean flawless, and there are limitations to what the program can do or ways that are not that obvious (don't get me started on bones ;)). so I just want to say on behalf all the newbs and in-betweens to please be patient and keep helping us getting there, as you are most often doing, thankfully.
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slowtiger
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Re: Emptying my bag

Post by slowtiger »

I've had big complex scenes often enough to know that sometimes rendering a bunch of stuff and re-import the video saves me a lot of time and trouble.

In your case you'd have 2 video files, one in colour and one in gray. Much easier to handle with masking now!

The bulging effect could be done with bones, but I'd do just a small enlargement of the colour layer without distortion: good enough for the effect and much simpler.
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Nicohk92
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Re: Emptying my bag

Post by Nicohk92 »

slowtiger wrote:I've had big complex scenes often enough to know that sometimes rendering a bunch of stuff and re-import the video saves me a lot of time and trouble.

In your case you'd have 2 video files, one in colour and one in gray. Much easier to handle with masking now!
Yeah, I could have resorted to other options hours before I did but it kind of got be obsessed like some kind of puzzle I absolutely had to elucidate

slowtiger wrote:The bulging effect could be done with bones, but I'd do just a small enlargement of the colour layer without distortion: good enough for the effect and much simpler.
I just rendered both separately but just for other compositing stuff, not for the bulge effect which I think cannot work in my case. I may post the video when finished but basically, the magnifier goes around a little bit everywhere on the frame so if you blow up the color (masked) clip even a tiny bit, there will be an offset, especially when it goes to the sides, unless spending some time on proper tracking don't you think? Well I'm about to see right now.
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jayfaker
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Re: Emptying my bag

Post by jayfaker »

What version of ASP are you using? If you go to the motion graph and you see just lines, you have to double click the channel icon on the left to show the bezier curves. Yes, double click. Single clicking will just show/hide the lines. It took me a while to find that. It would be nice if some things like that were more intuitive. But of course, I could say that about all software. I'm always shaking my fist like Captain Kirk. (ADOBEEEEEEE!!!!!)

Jim
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hayasidist
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Re: Emptying my bag

Post by hayasidist »

Nicohk92 wrote: ... I couldn't fine-tune in the motion graph since there are no bezier handles to be found....
two things: interpolation type for the keyframe needs to be bezier; and, as said by jayfaker, you need to double click the icon for the channel you want to modify: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26701
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Re: Emptying my bag

Post by slowtiger »

if you blow up the color (masked) clip even a tiny bit, there will be an offset, especially when it goes to the sides
Don't expect everything to work automatically. Say you move the magnifier with 7 keys, then you may adjust the clip layer with just 7 keys in the same frames (and with the same interpolation).

I did a test for the bulging effect. It works, but the distorted layer inside moves with the bone layer, so you need to adjust its position anyway:

http://slowtiger.de/examples/lupe.mov

Setup:

Code: Select all

- bone layer (hide all)
- - magnifier (don't mask)
- - bone layer (mask)
- - - colour clip
- - bw clip (don't mask)
- - mask (just a circle)
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Nicohk92
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Re: Emptying my bag

Post by Nicohk92 »

hayasidist wrote:
Nicohk92 wrote: ... I couldn't fine-tune in the motion graph since there are no bezier handles to be found....
two things: interpolation type for the keyframe needs to be bezier; and, as said by jayfaker, you need to double click the icon for the channel you want to modify: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26701

Check and check. With my keyframe in bezier and the channel double clicked , i see curves, points separated by x, y, z for transform for instance, but no bezier to grab (I'm on V10.1).
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Nicohk92
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Re: Emptying my bag

Post by Nicohk92 »

slowtiger wrote:
if you blow up the color (masked) clip even a tiny bit, there will be an offset, especially when it goes to the sides
Don't expect everything to work automatically. Say you move the magnifier with 7 keys, then you may adjust the clip layer with just 7 keys in the same frames (and with the same interpolation).

I did a test for the bulging effect. It works, but the distorted layer inside moves with the bone layer, so you need to adjust its position anyway:

http://slowtiger.de/examples/lupe.mov

Setup:

Code: Select all

- bone layer (hide all)
- - magnifier (don't mask)
- - bone layer (mask)
- - - colour clip
- - bw clip (don't mask)
- - mask (just a circle)

Wow it's very cool! That's all in AS? How did you manage to get that distorded effect? What bone technique is used for "- - bone layer (mask)" ? You just transform move your bone manually to follow the magnifier? Damn if I had that level of confidence in the tools I wouldn't spend all-nighters on non-problems.
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slowtiger
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Re: Emptying my bag

Post by slowtiger »

It's quite simple. AS can distort image layers (and videos, which is quite unique) with bones. Just check "warp with bones" n the image layer properties. Place your bones in frame 0 in a neutral position, and in distorted position in frame 1.
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jayfaker
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Re: Emptying my bag

Post by jayfaker »

Nicohk92 wrote:
hayasidist wrote:
Nicohk92 wrote: ... I couldn't fine-tune in the motion graph since there are no bezier handles to be found....
two things: interpolation type for the keyframe needs to be bezier; and, as said by jayfaker, you need to double click the icon for the channel you want to modify: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26701

Check and check. With my keyframe in bezier and the channel double clicked , i see curves, points separated by x, y, z for transform for instance, but no bezier to grab (I'm on V10.1).

Sorry to ask this, but could we see a screenshot of your timeline? In both views?
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Nicohk92
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Re: Emptying my bag

Post by Nicohk92 »

ok well now I can see them. Very strange because I double checked again before replying to you earlier. Not sure what I did in between but it works now. There must be a setting I accidentally disabled because previously I was seeing the curves, the keypoints on the curves (With the little dot for "bezier") but just not the bezier handles. Anyway, sorry for the bother.
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hayasidist
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Re: Emptying my bag

Post by hayasidist »

neat demo slowtiger!
slowtiger wrote: ... Say you move the magnifier with 7 keys, then you may adjust the clip layer with just 7 keys in the same frames (and with the same interpolation) ... [and] the distorted layer inside moves with the bone layer, so you need to adjust its position anyway
so is that 4 layers to move (magnifier, bone layer, colour clip, mask?)? Is that better than moving the bones (as well as magnifier and mask)?

oh, and, did you use 2 bones (x/y) or 4 (+x/-x/+y/-y) or ...?
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slowtiger
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Re: Emptying my bag

Post by slowtiger »

Just have a look inside the file, it's pretty self-explanatory.
http://slowtiger.de/examples/lupe.anme.zip (Of course you have to import your own images.)

- bone layer (hide all) (2 bones, 1 to hold the sw layer in place, 1 to move the magnifier and bone layer)
- - magnifier (don't mask)
- - bone layer (mask)
- - - colour clip (moves via layer translate)
- - bw clip (don't mask)
- - mask (just a circle)

I only move 1 bone and 1 layer.
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hayasidist
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Re: Emptying my bag

Post by hayasidist »

Thanks!
hayasidist wrote:oh, and, did you use 2 bones (x/y) or 4 (+x/-x/+y/-y) or ...?
I've noticed I forgot to be explicit about the fact that that question was referring to the bones used to do the warp / magnify-- - it was 4!

I didn't get the purpose of the ring of bones aligned with the magnifier rim?

but thanks again!
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slowtiger
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Re: Emptying my bag

Post by slowtiger »

I didn't get the purpose of the ring of bones aligned with the magnifier rim?
If I'd used just the 4 center bones the effect would be a simple enlargement. By placing non-moving bones around I restrict the inner bones' range and force them to distort the image.

This is a basic concept of all morphing software.
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