Bone locking still doesn't work in 5.3.1

[Rasheed]

I downloaded the new version of Moho 5.3.1, because in 5.3 I couldn't lock bones. But that problem hasn't been solved, it seems. If I check the lock bone checkbox, the check disappears as soon as I click in the Timeline window (see screenshots below).
_______


_______

Moho 5.3.1., Mac OS X 10.3.9

[Toontoonz]

Where did you get version 5.3.1?
I don´t see it listed in the forum announcements or faq----or did I miss it?

[Rasheed]

You missed it. See this post by Lost Marble.

[Toontoonz]

Rasheed - now I found the 5.3.1 update notice:
http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2780
"If you're experiencing this problem, please re-download Moho to get a fix."


I tried 5.3.1 - Still seem to be problems with locking bones and dynamics (or something) on bones still. Had a chain of 4 bones: parent at one end, others linked, the last bone in the chain was locked. Parent on one end, locked on the other end. The only bone in the chain that would move is the parent bone. All others locked. Perhaps this is the way it is supposed to be now.
Or if the parent bone had dynamics on it and no other bones were locked or had dynamics on them, then only the parent bone would move - others locked.

Rasheed, I could get the same "where did the locked bone checkmark go?" results on my PC, but maybe that is the way it is supposed to be now.
I got it by locking the parent bone. Once out of the 0 frame, the check mark disappeared. But maybe this is the way it is supposed to be - one can´t lock the parent bone. Perhaps your situation was different than mine?

I could not get Moho to crash like before, but don´t want to do anymore testing on Moho because I have already spent too much time Moho testing.

[Rasheed]

Well, I reinstalled version 5.2.1 and the result was exactly the same.

This leads me to conclude that:

One cannot lock a parent bone, only child bones.

Of course, I've reinstalled version 5.3.1 again.

[Toontoonz]

That´s what I was thinking that, that´s the way it always was. I guess one could lock the parent bone in place (so it can´t tilt back and forth), if one wanted, by using angle constraints in the bone dynamics.

Did you get a chance to test the other scenerios I tested in my post above to see if it was an error on my part and not a new situation 5.3.1?

[Rasheed]

In my case Moho never crashed from using these files, so I can't compare.

[Lost Marble]

Rasheed, can you show us a sample file of this situation, and tell us which bone is the one that can't be locked?

[Rasheed]

I have created a file with three skeletons, each controlling three balls on top of eachother. Each ball has a bone and the bottom bone is the parent, the one above a child, and the one above that a child of a child.


[skeleton 2] [skeleton] [skeleton 3]

In [skeleton] I try to lock the bottom bone, which I cannot do.
In [skeleton 2] I try to lock the middle bone, which I can do.
In [skeleton 3] I try to lock the top bone, which I can do.

Here is the file:

Code: Select all

application/x-vnd.lm_mohodoc
version 14
### Created in Moho version 5.3.1, � 1999-2005 Lost Marble
### Created: Sat Dec 10 18:53:11 2005

### static values
dimensions 320 240
frame_range 1 18
fps 24
back_color 234 234 234 255
noise_grain 0
allow_3d true
depth_sort false
distance_sort false
depth_of_field false 2 1 0.05
stereo_separation -1
extra_swf_frame false
soundtrack ""

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		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 false
		]
		flip_v
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 false
		]
		shear
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0 0 0
		]

		### layer effects

		### mesh layer values
		noisy_shapes false
		noisy_lines false
		animated_noise false
		noise_amp 0.033333
		noise_scale 0.133333
		extra_lines 0
		gap_filling false
		fill_texture ""
		line_texture ""
		mesh
		[
			points 4
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -0.03803 -0.456362
				]
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -1
				]
				-2
				false
				1
					0 0 
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 0.228181 -0.722573
				]
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -1
				]
				-2
				false
				1
					0 1 
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -0.03803 -0.988785
				]
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -1
				]
				-2
				false
				1
					0 2 
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -0.304241 -0.722573
				]
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -1
				]
				-2
				false
				1
					0 3 
			curves 1
				4 true
					0 true
					[
						keys 1
							0 0 0.1 0.5 0.391379
					]
					1 true
					[
						keys 1
							0 0 0.1 0.5 0.391379
					]
					2 true
					[
						keys 1
							0 0 0.1 0.5 0.391379
					]
					3 true
					[
						keys 1
							0 0 0.1 0.5 0.391379
					]
			shapes 1
				"" false true true true
					4
						0 0
						0 1
						0 2
						0 3
					""
						false
						[
							keys 1
								0 0 0.1 0.5 1 1 1 1
						]
						false 0.004167
						false
						[
							keys 1
								0 0 0.1 0.5 0 0 0 1
						]
						""
						false
						6.283185
						0.25
						true
						-1
						-1
						-1
					""
					""

			groups 0
		]
	}
	layer_type 1
	{
		### generic layer values
		name "Layer 2"
		quality_flags 1020
		origin 0 0
		parent_bone -1
		visible true
		render_only false
		edit_only false
		scale_compensation true
		rotate_to_follow false
		face_camera false
		masking 0
		blend_mode 0
		camera_immune false
		dof_immune false

		### transforms
		translation
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0 0 0
		]
		scale
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 1 1 1
		]
		rotation_x
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0
		]
		rotation_y
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0
		]
		rotation_z
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0
		]
		flip_h
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 false
		]
		flip_v
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 false
		]
		shear
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0 0 0
		]

		### layer effects

		### mesh layer values
		noisy_shapes false
		noisy_lines false
		animated_noise false
		noise_amp 0.033333
		noise_scale 0.133333
		extra_lines 0
		gap_filling false
		fill_texture ""
		line_texture ""
		mesh
		[
			points 4
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -0.042991 0.085981
				]
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -1
				]
				-2
				true
				1
					0 0 
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 0.072753 -0.042991
				]
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -1
				]
				-2
				true
				1
					0 1 
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -0.042991 -0.171963
				]
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -1
				]
				-2
				true
				1
					0 2 
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -0.158735 -0.042991
				]
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -1
				]
				-2
				true
				1
					0 3 
			curves 1
				4 true
					0 true
					[
						keys 1
							0 0 0.1 0.5 0.351238
					]
					1 true
					[
						keys 1
							0 0 0.1 0.5 0.436108
					]
					2 true
					[
						keys 1
							0 0 0.1 0.5 0.351238
					]
					3 true
					[
						keys 1
							0 0 0.1 0.5 0.436108
					]
			shapes 1
				"" false true true true
					4
						0 0
						0 1
						0 2
						0 3
					""
						false
						[
							keys 1
								0 0 0.1 0.5 1 1 1 1
						]
						false 0.004167
						false
						[
							keys 1
								0 0 0.1 0.5 0 0 0 1
						]
						""
						false
						6.283185
						0.25
						true
						-1
						-1
						-1
					""
					""

			groups 0
		]
	}
	layer_type 1
	{
		### generic layer values
		name "Layer 3"
		quality_flags 1020
		origin 0 0
		parent_bone -1
		visible true
		render_only false
		edit_only false
		scale_compensation true
		rotate_to_follow false
		face_camera false
		masking 0
		blend_mode 0
		camera_immune false
		dof_immune false

		### transforms
		translation
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0 0 0
		]
		scale
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 1 1 1
		]
		rotation_x
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0
		]
		rotation_y
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0
		]
		rotation_z
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0
		]
		flip_h
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 false
		]
		flip_v
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 false
		]
		shear
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0 0 0
		]

		### layer effects

		### mesh layer values
		noisy_shapes false
		noisy_lines false
		animated_noise false
		noise_amp 0.033333
		noise_scale 0.133333
		extra_lines 0
		gap_filling false
		fill_texture ""
		line_texture ""
		mesh
		[
			points 4
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -0.039684 0.468887
				]
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -1
				]
				-2
				true
				1
					0 0 
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 0.042784 0.376994
				]
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -1
				]
				-2
				true
				1
					0 1 
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -0.039684 0.285102
				]
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -1
				]
				-2

				true
				1
					0 2 
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -0.122152 0.376994
				]
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -1
				]
				-2
				true
				1
					0 3 
			curves 1
				4 true
					0 true
					[
						keys 1
							0 0 0.1 0.5 0.351238
					]
					1 true
					[
						keys 1
							0 0 0.1 0.5 0.436108
					]
					2 true
					[
						keys 1
							0 0 0.1 0.5 0.351238
					]
					3 true
					[
						keys 1
							0 0 0.1 0.5 0.436108
					]
			shapes 1
				"" false true true true
					4
						0 0
						0 1
						0 2
						0 3
					""
						false
						[
							keys 1
								0 0 0.1 0.5 1 1 1 1
						]
						false 0.004167
						false
						[
							keys 1
								0 0 0.1 0.5 0 0 0 1
						]
						""
						false
						6.283185
						0.25
						true
						-1
						-1
						-1
					""
					""

			groups 0
		]
	}
}
layer_type 4
{
	### generic layer values
	name "Skeleton 3"
	quality_flags 1022
	origin 0 0
	parent_bone -2
	visible true
	render_only false
	edit_only false
	scale_compensation true
	rotate_to_follow false
	face_camera false
	masking 0
	blend_mode 0
	camera_immune false
	dof_immune false

	### transforms
	translation
	[
		keys 1
			0 0 0.1 0.5 0.691157 0 0
	]
	scale
	[
		keys 1
			0 0 0.1 0.5 1 1 1
	]
	rotation_x
	[
		keys 1
			0 0 0.1 0.5 0
	]
	rotation_y
	[
		keys 1
			0 0 0.1 0.5 0
	]
	rotation_z
	[
		keys 1
			0 0 0.1 0.5 0
	]
	flip_h
	[
		keys 1
			0 0 0.1 0.5 false
	]
	flip_v
	[
		keys 1
			0 0 0.1 0.5 false
	]
	shear
	[
		keys 1
			0 0 0.1 0.5 0 0 0
	]

	### layer effects

	### bone layer values
	expanded false
	group_mask 0
	depth_sort false
	distance_sort false
	skeleton
	[
		binding_mode 2
		bones 3
			"" -1 -1 1 -1 1 1 -1 1 false 0.539037 1 0 0
			false -1.221731 1.221731
			[
				keys 1
					0 0 0.1 0.5 false
			]
			2 2 1
			[
				keys 1
					0 0 0.1 0.5 -0.036377 -0.992092
			]
			[
				keys 4
					0 0 0.1 0.5 1.570611
					7 0 0.1 0.5 1.047198
					12 0 0.1 0.5 1.622775
					13 0 0.1 0.5 1.047198
			]
			[
				keys 1
					0 0 0.1 0.5 1
			]
			[
				keys 1
					0 0 0.1 0.5 false
			]
			[
				keys 1
					0 0 0.1 0.5 0 0
			]
			[
				keys 1
					0 0 0.1 0.5 0
			]
			"" 0 -1 1 -1 1 1 -1 1 false 0.254758 1 -0.284398 -0.006667
			false -1.221731 1.221731
			[
				keys 1
					0 0 0.1 0.5 false
			]
			2 2 1
			[
				keys 1
					0 0 0.1 0.5 0.823435 0.00346
			]
			[
				keys 4
					0 0 0.1 0.5 6.27039
					7 0 0.1 0.5 6.806784
					12 0 0.1 0.5 6.108772
					13 0 0.1 0.5 6.806784
			]
			[
				keys 1
					0 0 0.1 0.5 1
			]
			[
				keys 1
					0 0 0.1 0.5 false
			]
			[
				keys 1
					0 0 0.1 0.5 0 0
			]
			[
				keys 1
					0 0 0.1 0.5 0
			]
			"" 1 -1 1 -1 1 1 -1 1 true 0.181983 1 -0.198359 -0.005882
			false -1.221731 1.221731
			[
				keys 1
					0 0 0.1 0.5 false
			]
			2 2 1
			[
				keys 1
					0 0 0.1 0.5 0.462894 0.009316
			]
			[
				keys 4
					0 0 0.1 0.5 0.012974
					7 0 0.1 0.5 0.523599
					12 0 0.1 0.5 0.122427
					13 0 0.1 0.5 6.806784
			]
			[
				keys 1
					0 0 0.1 0.5 1
			]
			[
				keys 3
					0 0 0.1 0.5 false
					7 0 0.1 0.5 true
					13 0 0.1 0.5 false
			]
			[
				keys 3
					0 3 -1 -1 0 0
					7 3 -1 -1 -0.029763 -0.198319
					13 3 -1 -1 -0.029763 -0.198319
			]
			[
				keys 3
					0 3 -1 -1 0
					7 3 -1 -1 1.57079
					13 3 -1 -1 1.57079
			]
	]

	### sub-layers
	layer_type 1
	{
		### generic layer values
		name "Layer 1"
		quality_flags 1020
		origin 0 0
		parent_bone -1
		visible true
		render_only false
		edit_only false
		scale_compensation true
		rotate_to_follow false
		face_camera false
		masking 0
		blend_mode 0
		camera_immune false
		dof_immune false

		### transforms
		translation
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0 0 0
		]
		scale
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 1 1 1
		]
		rotation_x
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0
		]
		rotation_y
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0
		]
		rotation_z
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0
		]
		flip_h
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 false
		]
		flip_v
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 false
		]
		shear
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0 0 0
		]

		### layer effects

		### mesh layer values
		noisy_shapes false
		noisy_lines false
		animated_noise false
		noise_amp 0.033333
		noise_scale 0.133333
		extra_lines 0
		gap_filling false
		fill_texture ""
		line_texture ""
		mesh
		[
			points 4
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -0.03803 -0.456362
				]
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -1
				]
				-2
				false
				1
					0 0 
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 0.228181 -0.722573
				]
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -1
				]
				-2
				false
				1
					0 1 
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -0.03803 -0.988785
				]
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -1
				]
				-2
				false
				1
					0 2 
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -0.304241 -0.722573
				]
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -1
				]
				-2
				false
				1
					0 3 
			curves 1
				4 true
					0 true
					[
						keys 1
							0 0 0.1 0.5 0.391379
					]
					1 true
					[
						keys 1
							0 0 0.1 0.5 0.391379
					]
					2 true
					[
						keys 1
							0 0 0.1 0.5 0.391379
					]
					3 true
					[
						keys 1
							0 0 0.1 0.5 0.391379
					]
			shapes 1
				"" false true true true
					4
						0 0
						0 1
						0 2
						0 3
					""
						false
						[
							keys 1
								0 0 0.1 0.5 1 1 1 1
						]
						false 0.004167
						false
						[
							keys 1
								0 0 0.1 0.5 0 0 0 1
						]
						""
						false
						6.283185
						0.25
						true
						-1
						-1
						-1
					""
					""

			groups 0
		]
	}
	layer_type 1
	{
		### generic layer values
		name "Layer 2"
		quality_flags 1020
		origin 0 0
		parent_bone -1
		visible true
		render_only false
		edit_only false
		scale_compensation true
		rotate_to_follow false
		face_camera false
		masking 0
		blend_mode 0
		camera_immune false
		dof_immune false

		### transforms
		translation
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0 0 0
		]
		scale
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 1 1 1
		]
		rotation_x
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0
		]
		rotation_y
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0
		]
		rotation_z
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0
		]
		flip_h
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 false
		]
		flip_v
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 false
		]
		shear
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0 0 0
		]

		### layer effects

		### mesh layer values
		noisy_shapes false
		noisy_lines false
		animated_noise false
		noise_amp 0.033333
		noise_scale 0.133333
		extra_lines 0
		gap_filling false
		fill_texture ""
		line_texture ""
		mesh
		[
			points 4
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -0.042991 0.085981
				]
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -1
				]
				-2
				true
				1
					0 0 
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 0.072753 -0.042991
				]
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -1
				]
				-2
				true
				1
					0 1 
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -0.042991 -0.171963
				]
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -1
				]
				-2
				true
				1
					0 2 
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -0.158735 -0.042991
				]
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -1
				]
				-2
				true
				1
					0 3 
			curves 1
				4 true
					0 true
					[
						keys 1
							0 0 0.1 0.5 0.351238
					]
					1 true
					[
						keys 1
							0 0 0.1 0.5 0.436108
					]
					2 true
					[
						keys 1
							0 0 0.1 0.5 0.351238
					]
					3 true
					[
						keys 1
							0 0 0.1 0.5 0.436108
					]
			shapes 1
				"" false true true true
					4
						0 0
						0 1
						0 2
						0 3
					""
						false
						[
							keys 1
								0 0 0.1 0.5 1 1 1 1
						]
						false 0.004167
						false
						[
							keys 1
								0 0 0.1 0.5 0 0 0 1
						]
						""
						false
						6.283185
						0.25
						true
						-1
						-1
						-1
					""
					""

			groups 0
		]
	}
	layer_type 1
	{
		### generic layer values
		name "Layer 3"
		quality_flags 1020
		origin 0 0
		parent_bone -1
		visible true
		render_only false
		edit_only false
		scale_compensation true
		rotate_to_follow false
		face_camera false
		masking 0
		blend_mode 0
		camera_immune false
		dof_immune false

		### transforms
		translation
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0 0 0
		]
		scale
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 1 1 1
		]
		rotation_x
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0
		]
		rotation_y
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0
		]
		rotation_z
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0
		]
		flip_h
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 false
		]
		flip_v
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 false
		]
		shear
		[
			keys 1
				0 0 0.1 0.5 0 0 0
		]

		### layer effects

		### mesh layer values
		noisy_shapes false
		noisy_lines false
		animated_noise false
		noise_amp 0.033333
		noise_scale 0.133333
		extra_lines 0
		gap_filling false
		fill_texture ""
		line_texture ""
		mesh
		[
			points 4
				[
					keys 1
						0 0 0.1 0.5 -0.039684 0.468887
				]
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[Lost Marble]

This is actually working as expected, but I think a more detailed description of bone locking is in order. When you lock a bone, two things are really happening:

First, what is really getting locked is the tip of that bone's parent. For example, if you lock your foot on the floor, the tip of your lower leg bone (your ankle) is locked in place.

Second, the bone that you locked then tries to maintain the same angle if other bones in the chain move around.

Put those together, and there are two things that really get locked: the tip of the parent bone and the angle of the locked bone.

So, because of point #1 above, when you lock a bone it needs to have a parent. In your first example, you're trying to lock a bone with no parent which can't be done. Bone locking is designed to be used mostly with bones at the end of a chain: feet, hands, etc.

[Toontoonz]

So now how does one get a leg to bend at the knee if the foot bone is locked?
The foot bone is locked.
The calf leg bone attached to the foot bone won´t move.
The thigh leg bone barely budges and moves the calf leg bone a fraction. The only bone that can be moved is the hip (parent) bone and it will budge all bones a bit. And when I move the hip bone the locked foot bone keeps its same angle, but it moves a little bit horizontally off its position.

Here is a graphic showing how much one can now bend a leg with the foot locked:

click to see larger.

In what situation would one want to now lock a bone? Nothing much moves in the IK change (other that the parent).
If I wanted to constrain the angle of the bone attached to a bone I would rather use Bone Constraints > Angle Constraints than the new locked bone system.

To me a locked bone has a different meaning. Locked means that bone will not move, it stays in place like it is cemented to the ground, but everything else can rotate around it.
But I guess I have the wrong understanding of what locked means.
However I can´t figure out what situation one would use this new locked bone system - it freezes up everything in the IK chain.

I want the character´s feet to stay in place (locked) on the ground (keeping their position and angle locked) while the rest of the character moves around.
How can one now do that in Moho?

[ulrik]

It's working, look at the picture
this is the parent-child chain: leftmost little bone - lowest bone (locked) - the blue one over that - the red one - and the top bone.
At frame 0 the locked bone is not locked but after that it stays locked and you can freely rotate, scale and translate the other bones in the leg.[img]/Users/ulrikboden/Desktop/lockedbone.png[/img]

[ulrik]

ahhrghh...how do I put an image here?....hmmm

[ulrik]

here's the image:

[Rasheed]

ahhrghh...how do I put an image here?....hmmm

image shack perhaps?