Vector or raster

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parseh
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Vector or raster

Post by parseh »

Hello there,

I have sketched a character and I want to animate it. While AS drawing tools are great I decided to ink and color the character in Illustrator because I'm more comfortable drawing in Illustrator. Now the question is which is better? Exporting as svg and working with vector in AS or rasterize the parts and import them as png files. I personally think rasterizing the parts is better than importing vector files with too many points. What do you guys think?

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synthsin75
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Re: Vector or raster

Post by synthsin75 »

If you have Moho 12, import the svg. If not, either raster or vector trace yourself.
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Greenlaw
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Re: Vector or raster

Post by Greenlaw »

synthsin75 is correct. If you have Moho 12, SVG will import more or less exactly what you create in Illustrator. However, keep in mind that what is optimal for Illustrator may not necessarily lend itself for getting nice deformations in Moho. Chances are that you will need to add points or move some points around to get good deformations at the joints. That said, I would prefer adding a few points to deleting a zillion unwanted ones. :)

If you have an earlier version though, you'll definitely want to import raster. Just be sure to output the images at a high enough resolution so that it looks good up-close and when it's being deformed. IMO, 2k - 3k is suitable most of the time. (At my workplace, I've had to go as high as 4k for a 720p show, but that's pretty rare.)
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parseh
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Re: Vector or raster

Post by parseh »

I don't have a powerful computer. Let's say I don't want to have any point animations, which one is less CPU/GPU intensive?
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slowtiger
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Re: Vector or raster

Post by slowtiger »

This mostly depends on the number of characters in a scene. One to three usually don't cause any problems. There are some tricks to apply should you really run into lag.
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Greenlaw
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Re: Vector or raster

Post by Greenlaw »

The computer I used to make Scareplane and HLF was a fairly modest laptop computer with Core 2 and 4GB RAM, and I was able to animate 3 characters in the first film, and up to five in the second without problems. The rigs were smoothly interactive throughout the productions.

In the first film, the characters were all vector graphics created in ASP 9.5. I was being very careful to use as few points as possible in the characters, and probably over-optimized the setups. This was because Scareplane was my first ASP animation and I really didn't know what to expect. As it turned out, ASP was super efficient and I probably could have animated many more characters on that computer if I had to.

For HLF, I initially meant to use all bitmaps for the characters. ASP is pretty efficient with bitmaps too but if they're high res, it does drag down the computer much sooner than with all vector setups. After my initial R&D tests, I found that using pure bitmap setups was not going to work well on this laptop, and I finally settled on a hybrid setup using vectors for nearly all shapes (characters, props, backgrounds, etc.,) and Image Texture for the fills and strokes. This setup worked remarkably well and I was able to animate scenes with up to five characters with full interactivity, including bone dynamics for hair.

Rendering the layer comps went very quickly for either production.

The only major slow down I experienced on this laptop was during compositing for HLF using After Effects. The laptop just couldn't handle many 1080p frames with lots of motion blur effects added in post. I wound up doing the composting on my desktop computer at home. But even the desktop was fairly modest (a 5 year old i7 quad core with 9GB RAM,) and it struggled a little to output the final movie file...but it managed to finish the job.

I've since upgraded the desktop's RAM to 18GB and put in a better graphics card, which pretty much maxes out this computer, but it handles higher res textures in Moho and large 1080p frames in AE much better now.

To summarize: if you don't have a lot of RAM or a powerful CPU, stick with vectors. Moho handles vectors remarkably well, even when you use a lot of masking effects and dynamics.

If you need detailed fills, you can use Image Texture or masked layers. Use textures that are only as large as you need--you'll have to experiment with different resolutions to see what your limit is. (For HLF, I think most textures were about 800k but many were designed to tile. Some larger areas, like skies and the bigger buildings were 1k to 2k--probably bigger when there was panning involved.)

If you choose to go with a bitmap look, use the hybrid setup as much as you can. Use a texture brush for 'organic' looking shape edges and use Image Texture for the fill and strokes color. Don't worry about the Image Textures getting out of sync when you transform them--the two separate properties actually share the same widget so ASP/Moho will keep them in sync.

You'll probably be able to use a few 'pure' bitmap characters but expect a slow down to occur much sooner than with the hybrid setup. In HLF, the 'Heart' people are entirely bitmap and I found that in the second scene where there are only four of them visible, both computers' performance really bogged down. This is mostly because there are many instances of dynamics applied to the hanging arteries, but even with dynamics disabled it's noticeably slower to animate than other scenes using the hybrid setup characters. (Note: This particular slow-down was mainly caused by a dynamics bug in ASP 10, which was fixed in ASP 11.)

Hope this helps. The best thing you can do is to just try a bunch of stuff and see what works best for your setup.
Last edited by Greenlaw on Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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parseh
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Re: Vector or raster

Post by parseh »

Thank you guys for your answers and thank you Greenlaw for sharing your experiences. Very useuful information!
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Greenlaw
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Re: Vector or raster

Post by Greenlaw »

Yesterday I couldn't see the images you posted so I couldn't comment on them, but I see them now. Very nice design, btw.

I think you should import them as SVG. Depending on how you colored them, Moho should preserve the colors. You may need to make a few tweaks but I think import should do a reasonable job. (I haven't tested this myself but from seeing 'before and after' comparisons by other artists here, it seems to work well in Moho 12.)

You might need to adjust points in the joints as described earlier, depending on how you drew your strokes. In general, it's good to have a point on either side of a joint, and maybe a points before and after to help preserve the shape (not always necessary, it depends on the character and how the joint is intended to bend.)

For some of the 'effects' shading, like the hair and cheeks, you have a few options.

For the hair, you can use the drawn highlights or you can use the Shaded effect with a hard edge. Either works well but with Shaded, you can simulate directional lighting. It's not really necessary but it can be nice effect when the character is moving. In some cases, it can be a pain to work with too, but at least you can always go back to fixed shading. (Note that you can do this at the Style and Layer levels, depending how much coverage you want for the effect.) Alternatively, you can use a masked element for the highlight. It's a little more work to animate but you do have the most control over the shape and coverage this way.

For the rosy cheeks, if the gradient doesn't come through with the SVG, you can create it using a circle filled with a Gradient effect. By making the cheeks separate shapes, you can animate them easier for head turns.

Depending on how you want to animate the mouth and eyes, you may want to re-create these elements in Moho. When I'm building characters at my workplace, I typically work from bitmap artwork but I'll usually re-create the mouth and eyes with vectors so I have more flexibility when animating them. Sometimes I'll do that for hand poses too.

Hope this helps.
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parseh
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Re: Vector or raster

Post by parseh »

That's good idea Greenlaw! I can't wait to get my hands on Moho. I don't think it can import effects and gradients but I as you suggested I can easily recreate those in Moho and with a few tweaks here and there I will have fully optimized characters ready for animation.

And I will definitely try the shading effect you mentioned

Thanks again
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funksmaname
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Re: Vector or raster

Post by funksmaname »

Very nice character :)
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