Feature requests - Gravity and collision detection

[Postality]

Now that we have the great bone dynamics (which was one of my requests before) I would also like to see a bone "gravity" setting that applies weight to the bones for example a setting of 0 would mean no gravity is used, while a 6 would mean 6 point of downforce, and a -6 would mean a 6 point of upforce.

I would also like to see some sort of "collision detection" How this would work? well after thinking about it I though that if you had a character and set the "outline" to detect collision then if it hit anything it wouldn't go through the other object. OR you can have it affect layer groups for example so that it would detect colliosion with the other parts of the body of the character you're using etc. it would probably be best to make it by layer depth so it the two layers are on the same line then it will detect the collision.


These features are a MAJOR player in 3D apps such as 3D studio max. and I think Moho would benifit from this alot. Think of the realistic kind of effects that can be displayed this way.

and seeing as though bone dynamics was able to be implemented, I don't see why these features couldn't be.

Thanx for reading.

[Lost Marble]

I'm not saying these features will never happen, but...

Because Moho is a 2D program, a lot of times an artist will create an appearance of depth or three dimensions by carefully placing objects in a 2D space.

For example, if you have two characters standing on a field, by placing one character a little bit higher up than the other it will appear farther away.

This leads to real problems with any kind of physical simulation. Moho has no way to know if the character that is higher up is meant to be farther away in depth, or if it is meant to be floating in the air. Should "gravity" pull this character back down to the ground or leave it alone.

Also, if these two characters pass each other, Moho has no way to know whether they should collide or not. You mentioned one possible solution - only calculate collisions between objects at the same depth. However, there are a lot of subtle situations where it's really not clear whether two objects should collide or not.

3D programs, because their very design is more oriented towards simulating physical objects, make it a lot easier to simulate physical interactions. A 3D model (at least in theory) can actually provide all the details needed for the simulation, while Moho's 2D artwork leaves a lot of open questions.

[Postality]

With your creative mind and the creative work you've done with moho, I'm sure you can think of a way to get it in there and have it work. I don't doubt you for one minute.

And that's just it, no 2D software has done this, NOR has any 2D software had bones. moho breaks that barrier, and with this system it would break it even more and show the world that it's even possible in 2D.

it would also give moho an even bigger edge on the competition (the little that there is.)

I guess it would be good to make a LIMP BONE setting too. the current bone dynamics can't really recreate a LIMP kinda bone effect.

You go moho!

[AcouSvnt]

You can create a "limp bone" by stringing together a series of smaller bones, if that's what you're after. There was one tutorial that had something like this for a tail.

As for your comment "I know you can do this", LM wasn't saying they couldn't do something like that; they were saying it would be a bad idea to implement features that make too many assumptions about what the person using the software is trying to do.

[Postality]

You can't create a proper limp bone without some sort of gravity system, it just doesn't work. meaning how a dead body would react to falling from the sky and hitting something on the way down. meaning if they hit something the bone would move automatically according to the collision.

without a gravity and force level there's no way to do this in moho.

as for them being able to do it vs what people will be able to do with it can be quite interesting and managable.

for example, the "collision area" could have a radiant such as the "bone strength" to determine how far or close something must be to have it do a collision. so for example if you wanted the character to hit something that was only on the EXACT space from front to back then you would scale the collision strength to the lowest etc and an option to turn collisions on/off.

as you can see there IS/ARE way(s) that this can be done nicely.

moho already showed the world that bones can be used in 2D. And I always get the same reply "well, moho is a 2D app, if you want to be able to do this go get a 3D app." And no, that's not for you, but I get alot of that. =) I personally like 2D stuff and seeing as bones where put in I see no reason why people would want to limit the program. if it CAN be done it SHOULD be done IF it can be done right, and this example would work great for those that want it and those that don't you have that OPTION. I understand that some people may not want some features, but just like any other program, you don't have to use all the features if you don't want to. I just want to see moho rise even higher above the rest, and as it stands it's doing a great job of that right now. =)

[spasmodic_cheese]

thats where you trusty skills as an animator come in handy.

Moho has elements of what 3d animation programs in it, but that doesnt mean it works anything like <insert your favourite 3d animation program>

Personally if i started seeing a physics engine in moho i would be abit upset.

Peoples animation will be turned into plastic cookie-cut movements, removing all personality and expression from the animator's work and replacing it with a Moho patented perfectly correct algorithm for defining when and where things happen.

People will get lazy and do this. Its similar to how people say flash animation has that 'flash feel'. If moho does al lthe work for us, people will be saying that animaton has a 'moho feel' and perhaps just disregard it.

I hope moho doesnt lose its roots, give us the ability to do great things, but not do the work for us.

[Postality]

but like I said, it would be a FEATURE. not everyone will and want to use it. But that shouldn't mean it's not available.


EDIT: actually most of this already works with the dynamic system, just takes some getting use to. the "gravity" is based on how fast etc. the object is moved. and the collision isn't really needed since the bones would react to a direction change which would be easy enough for you to do by yourself.

however there IS a problem with the dynamics which I will post in the bugs section in a few.

I can't believe it's my dream come true!

[cribble]

I quite like the idea of the collision detection thingy. You could have different modes to react when there is a collision like.. errr... bounce, hard, soft, and... some more.... modes. I would like to see this in a future release.

[Postality]

Yes I agree, the bone dynamics aren't 100% ragdoll friendly and can't recreate a ragdoll effect perfectly without a limp bone / gravity setting.

it would be like a crane picking up a body for example and the bones would bend to the constraints according to the gravity setting. the limp bones would react accordingly kind of "swinging" in the air depending on how they where picked up.

The bone dynamics are great but there's no TRUE limp bone setting as of yet.

[Rai López]

HI! ...Apart of all that applications that you are talking about, I'd find specially useful (you don't know how much) for things like a mouth that when is opened deforms the head instead went off it, and similar utilities... Of course I'm too late for this discussion and now my opinion will be beside the point, but I think this kind of features would bring us to another level of control and automation that, without any doubt, would be very good for the actual times... I think that all this feature is totally in the philoshophy of Moho as far as I can deduce cause... Moho is automation, yes... Moho is a save time program and a few number of people at work (even only one! ), Moho is a (and I quote textually ) "just forget about it and let Moho take care of it" ...Others always can use paper and pencil to make animation if they want to make things "manually" and totally natural, I think Moho is not designed for it and (fortunatelly) I'm almost sure it never will be... So, maybe, people like me (and much others as I can see) are treating to found the way of compete in a world where all the other people out there make his competitive animations with programs that include all this advantadges and automatations, and well, we can't be (or we shouldn't be) in... mmmh... disadvantage? Well, were my opinion and that's all ...CIAO!

[bupaje]

Instead of adding stuff like this to the Moho core maybe Moho is mature enough, with a big enough user base, to start to support some low priced 3rd party addons.

I sometimes use 3D Game Studio and at first most of the scripts were free user stuff but lately there has been more and more low cost addons that allow users to expand certain features. Moho's low price might not support users willing to buy $100-$300 addons but if there is enough volume small developers might be able to sell some $5-$15 addons if the functionality perks peoples interest.