connecting and disconnecting bone plus bind layer

[zoesan]

I'm doing a spoof of Dylan's early video Subterranean Homesick Blues from 1965. I have the first plaque joined to a bone (bind layer),as in the IMG supplied, its discarded, but now I can't bind the next plaque (layer) once into the timeline, I've tried the unparent bone tool that doesn't allow me to get back to the bind layer tool unless I'm at frame 0. Select and then discard the multiple plaques whilst not on frame 0 in the timeline, any thoughts welcome.

The only option right now I can see is to runout each discard of the plaque, and then return to frame zero for the remaining.

[Greenlaw]

My first thought:

Break out the cards into to 3 separate switch groups. Put the stack of Switch layers inside another group and enable Animated Layer Order.

Place 3 bones near the 'throwing' hand. Do not parent the bones to that hand bone. If the character moves (shifts weight on legs, turns slightly, etc.,) parent the bones to the other hand so the cards move with the character.

During animation, un-parent the bone for the 'top' card and parent it to 'throwing' hand. Now the card will move with that hand as it tosses the card. Unparent the bone to release the card. To make the card spin properly, you'll probably want to rotate the layer from it's origin or use a child bone at the center of the card. (i.e., use the corner bone for position and the card origin or child bone for spin. I suggest using a child bone since this keeps all the animation inside the bones channel.)

When the card goes off camera, use the 'Reset' command to send the Switch layer back to the original location and orientation (Reset uses the position, scale and rotation from frame 0. If Reset doesn't work because the the layer was transformed at frame 1, then copy paste the keys from frame 1 or use a Regular Action to store and paste the keys. You can probably call the Action 'Reset'.)

Change the card text by selecting the 'fourth' card's text in the switch layer.

Now, move the Switch layer behind the other two Switch layers. Animated layer order will keyframe the order in the groups channel.

Repeat for each card.

Tip: use Timeline visibility to keep the layer order keyframes visible with the bones layer's keyframes.

This approach seemed the most straightforward to me but I can already think of another variation.

For example, If you don't want to bother with animated layer order, use two switch layers containing all the text in both layers. Then, just before the 'rear' card is revealed, change it's text to the next card. Then just before the card that's been tossed off-camera is reset, change it's text to match the 'rear' card's text so it now becomes the 'rear' card. Now Repeat.

I suggest testing the above ideas (or any unproven ideas) with a very simple rig setup that has ONLY the relevant animation. Use something you can set up and test in five minutes...it doesn't need to be presentable, you're just proving a concept, not doing final animation. This is where you can discover and work out technical issues. In my experience, this is easier and faster to work this stuff out on a proxy system. Once you get a good system down, apply the setup to your actual character rig.

I also suggest carefully naming everything (bones, switches, cards, etc.) logically. It's a lot of stuff to keep track of, naming will make it go more smoothly. You might even want to setup an X-sheet for this.

Hope this helps.

[zoesan]

Hi Greenlaw thanks for the reply I'm going to try and follow what you've laid out as the idea I had of returning to frame 0 after running out each plaque doesn't in its current form work. So whilst making up each plaque (a few to do) I'll return to your post, it may be that I'll have to request some more direction but will get to that later, many thanks.

[Greenlaw]

Sure. If I have time this weekend, I'll throw together a simple proof and post it. (I'm a little curious about this now.)

[hayasidist]

maybe simpler:
each placard (layer / group) has its own bone in the "body" skeleton to which it is bound
all these bones start in the same place and are all parented to the "holding" hand bone (might be easier to have these bones physically separate on frame 0 and translate them to this starting position on frame 1 - or maybe even offset bone???)
when they're to be thrown, reparent just the "active" placard's bone to the throwing hand
then as the throwing hand moves to discard the placard its bone is re-parented to none - so it can take on a life of its own
?

[slowtiger]

The fastest and easiest solution is: have all placards in a switch layer, duplicate this 2 times. One goes bound to the holding hand, one goes bound to the throwing hand, one is for the placards lying on the ground. The one at the throwing hand needs to switch visibility.

[zoesan]

I've set up the placards as suggested but getting some anomalies out of the starting post, not important but the switch layer is picking up another placard in the stack that I can't change for now.
Given the professional replies I have a lot to go by now, the Acronym KISS comes to mind: "keep it simple, stupid" or "keep it simple stupid", is a design principle noted by the U.S. Navy in 1960. The KISS principle states that most systems work best if they are kept simple rather than made complicated; therefore, simplicity should be a key goal in design, and unnecessary complexity should be avoided, of course the 'stupid' refers to me, just too make that clear.
Given slowtiger's reply consists of two lines, one of which I do understand: The fastest and easiest solution is: have all placards in a switch layer, duplicate this 2 times.

One goes bound to the holding hand, one goes bound to the throwing hand, one is for the placards lying on the ground. The one at the throwing hand needs to switch visibility.

will need more clarification should time permit.
Thanks for support to take this past the finishing line.

[Greenlaw]

Decided to test my suggestions. This setup took about a half hour to set up and animate:



This is essentially what I described but in actually walking through the steps, I found ways to simplify it a bit.

In the above, I'm using two Switch layers, and when the flying card snaps back to the start position, both Switches advance to the next card in the sequence. Using Timeline Visibility, it's easy to make sure the switches and bones animations stay in sync.



I'm using dynamic parenting to parent and release the first Switch group's bone from the left hand bone. The card bone is re-parented after the card goes off-camera. The second Switch group's bone is parented to the right hand bone and is released at the end of the animation.

As mentioned earlier, this works if the card goes off-camera, however, if you reveal static versions of the cards on the ground when the flying card rests, you can do this with a wider full-body framing.

If I was doing this for real, I'd also use animated layer order to move the card from behind the right hand to in front of the right hand as the card is being tossed. In wider angles, I'd probably add some 3D rotations to the cards.

Here's the project file. Hope it helps.

DylanTest

[zoesan]

looked at the post and accompanying file, can't open the Moho file from Dropbox though, the gif you've supplied is very fluid with a great flick in the hand movements in comparison to my first attempt. I've split the the plaques into two switch layers: haven't worked out how the order works yet, but think I get the gist of it, just done two plaques which looks clunky can improve. Can't tell from the gif the binding, looks like two bones that get parented then unparented from the hand bones, can't see from the gif, its the second plaque and following etc I've yet to work out, I take it from the last post:

DR Greenlaw

Place 3 bones near the 'throwing' hand. Do not parent the bones to that hand bone. If the character moves (shifts weight on legs, turns slightly, etc.,) parent the bones to the other hand so the cards move with the character.

During animation, un-parent the bone for the 'top' card and parent it to 'throwing' hand. Now the card will move with that hand as it tosses the card. Unparent the bone to release the card.

.

Three or two bones and although I can get the first plaque working as you described, I'm pressing on, many thanks for that.

[Greenlaw]

Hmm. I downloaded the .zip, unpacked it, and it seems ok.

What version of Moho are you using? I'm using Moho 12.5.

[zoesan]

the same 12.5 could be the web browser.

[Greenlaw]

Three or two bones and although I can get the first plaque working as you described, I'm pressing on, many thanks for that.

You can probably disregard some of the details in my original instructions. In walking through my suggestion, I found some of what I was thinking isn't necessary. I have only a single bone for each Switch layer (cardBoneA and cardBoneB,) which as you guessed are parented to the hand bones. Then they are simply un-parented just before the toss.

Then I copied the keyframes for the bone from frame 1 to snap the card back to its origin after it leaves the camera frame. You'll probably need to manual tweak the position because the arm position might not have returned exactly if you're manually keyframing the character as I've done. It should just take a second since you have CardB sitting there as a convenient reference.

[Greenlaw]

the same 12.5 could be the web browser.

Hmm...are you clicking the download button in the corner and un-packing the file before using it? It's just a DropBox link so it should work with any browser. (I've only tried with Chrome and Firefox though.)

Can another user following this thread try downloading and running the file in Moho? I want to make sure this is working correctly. Thanks!

[synthsin75]

File works fine here. Download, open zip, and either drag the moho file out and open it or open it without closing the zip file.

[Greenlaw]

Thanks for testing it, Wes!