I am familiar with Moho's Pro features, but I am not clear about exactly what the differences are between the two, and whether there have been any changes in these differences going to 13.5.
I am thinking about buying a number of licences for education, and because of that I would be interested in a detailed breakdown of the feature differences, if one is available.
Edit: scratch that request, found it:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0552/ ... n_List.pdf
Pro Vs Debut 13.5
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
Re: Pro Vs Debut 13.5
In my opinion, Moho Debut has a lot of the functionality of Pro, but it does have significant limitations. Here are some of my notes about Debut's limits...
- No Group layer. But you can mostly work around this one using a Bone layer instead.
- No Layered PSD support. But it will import a PSD as a composited image. That said, I still prefer to use separate PNG files even though I use Moho Pro at my workplace and at home.
- Can't create or edit Smart Bone Actions. Debut does allow you to animate with SBAs, but a large part of what makes Moho useful is the ability to create and modify SBAs.
- No Frame By Frame. Not really a deal killer but it's useful when you need it. You can create your FBF outside of Moho, but it will need to be imported as a video clip because Debut does not support the Image Sequence layer. If you need to combine Debut animations with FBF, it's probably better to do this in a compositing program.
- No 3D layer. Again, probably not a deal killer. If you really need 3D, you're better off using a 3D animation program.
- No Physics. This includes bone physics and the new Wind physics.
- Particles. Debut is able to play existing particle animation, but it can't create or edit setups.
- No Smart Warp. You can warp an image using bones but that's really not the same thing.
- Debut supports all of the Vector drawing tools but it's missing many of the vector transform tools, most notably the Magnet tool.
- Bone labels. This would be critical to Pro users but it's not as critical for Debut users since Debut can't recreate Smart Bone Actions.
- Bone Flipping. Debut does support Layer flipping so you can still flip a character by flipping it's Bone group layer.
- No Stroke Exposure.
- No Bone Constraints. This isn't completely accurate: it supports some constraints found in Moho Pro, but you can't edit them in Debut.
- No Layer Comps or Moho Exporter. This is important is you intend to use Moho with compositing programs like After Effects or Fusion.
- Animation length is limited to 2000 frames. TBH, you'll probably never need to render anywhere near 2000 frames. I've been using Moho in professional TV production for several years and I rarely render a single scene running more than a couple hundred frames. Most typical cartoon scenes run less than 120 frames or 5 seconds. The common practice is to create a separate Moho project for each scene, and compile your animation using a video editing program. While it's certainly possible to create a 2000 frame animated short completely in Moho Debut, IMO, working in smaller 'chunks' is a better way to work.
- Debut's maximum resolution appears to be 900 x 900 pixels, so not possible to work in HD. Pro's max is 9000 x 9000 pixels.
- No scripting.
Here's a complete table of comparisons between Debut and Pro, clipped from the user manual:
Debut and Pro Product Comparison
I personally think Debut is fine for simple puppet animations. It has the necessary features for building simple rigs with basic IK, vector drawing and bitmap import, audio support, and it exports image sequences and a basic MP4. (Recommend exporting PNG sequence and compiling the footage in another program for the best results.) It's not as easy to use as Pro, at least not if you intend to create more complex animations with it (like some of the TV work seen on my demo reels), but it's great for 'greeting card' style animations like Hoops & Yoyo.
Years ago, I started developing a Moho Debut course to teach my child Sienna and some of her school friends. Sadly, I abandoned this project because Sienna was about 9 years old and didn't yet have the patience to animate with keyframes, plus she was way more into drawing frame by frame animation. It would be a shame to waste some of the easy rigging demos and techniques I came up with back then, and since Moho is clearly making a come back, I'm thinking of reviving the Debut project but for older beginning users.
I need to finish some advanced Moho Pro 13.5 videos I've been working on first, and then I'll revisit my Moho Debut project.
(BTW, Sienna is a teen now and still drawing FBF almost every day, but she recently asked me to teach her Moho because she thinks it can speed up some of her work. So, it looks like I'll be gearing these Moho Pro videos for her after all.)
Hope this helps.
- No Group layer. But you can mostly work around this one using a Bone layer instead.
- No Layered PSD support. But it will import a PSD as a composited image. That said, I still prefer to use separate PNG files even though I use Moho Pro at my workplace and at home.
- Can't create or edit Smart Bone Actions. Debut does allow you to animate with SBAs, but a large part of what makes Moho useful is the ability to create and modify SBAs.
- No Frame By Frame. Not really a deal killer but it's useful when you need it. You can create your FBF outside of Moho, but it will need to be imported as a video clip because Debut does not support the Image Sequence layer. If you need to combine Debut animations with FBF, it's probably better to do this in a compositing program.
- No 3D layer. Again, probably not a deal killer. If you really need 3D, you're better off using a 3D animation program.
- No Physics. This includes bone physics and the new Wind physics.
- Particles. Debut is able to play existing particle animation, but it can't create or edit setups.
- No Smart Warp. You can warp an image using bones but that's really not the same thing.
- Debut supports all of the Vector drawing tools but it's missing many of the vector transform tools, most notably the Magnet tool.
- Bone labels. This would be critical to Pro users but it's not as critical for Debut users since Debut can't recreate Smart Bone Actions.
- Bone Flipping. Debut does support Layer flipping so you can still flip a character by flipping it's Bone group layer.
- No Stroke Exposure.
- No Bone Constraints. This isn't completely accurate: it supports some constraints found in Moho Pro, but you can't edit them in Debut.
- No Layer Comps or Moho Exporter. This is important is you intend to use Moho with compositing programs like After Effects or Fusion.
- Animation length is limited to 2000 frames. TBH, you'll probably never need to render anywhere near 2000 frames. I've been using Moho in professional TV production for several years and I rarely render a single scene running more than a couple hundred frames. Most typical cartoon scenes run less than 120 frames or 5 seconds. The common practice is to create a separate Moho project for each scene, and compile your animation using a video editing program. While it's certainly possible to create a 2000 frame animated short completely in Moho Debut, IMO, working in smaller 'chunks' is a better way to work.
- Debut's maximum resolution appears to be 900 x 900 pixels, so not possible to work in HD. Pro's max is 9000 x 9000 pixels.
- No scripting.
Here's a complete table of comparisons between Debut and Pro, clipped from the user manual:
Debut and Pro Product Comparison
I personally think Debut is fine for simple puppet animations. It has the necessary features for building simple rigs with basic IK, vector drawing and bitmap import, audio support, and it exports image sequences and a basic MP4. (Recommend exporting PNG sequence and compiling the footage in another program for the best results.) It's not as easy to use as Pro, at least not if you intend to create more complex animations with it (like some of the TV work seen on my demo reels), but it's great for 'greeting card' style animations like Hoops & Yoyo.
Years ago, I started developing a Moho Debut course to teach my child Sienna and some of her school friends. Sadly, I abandoned this project because Sienna was about 9 years old and didn't yet have the patience to animate with keyframes, plus she was way more into drawing frame by frame animation. It would be a shame to waste some of the easy rigging demos and techniques I came up with back then, and since Moho is clearly making a come back, I'm thinking of reviving the Debut project but for older beginning users.
I need to finish some advanced Moho Pro 13.5 videos I've been working on first, and then I'll revisit my Moho Debut project.
(BTW, Sienna is a teen now and still drawing FBF almost every day, but she recently asked me to teach her Moho because she thinks it can speed up some of her work. So, it looks like I'll be gearing these Moho Pro videos for her after all.)
Hope this helps.
Last edited by Greenlaw on Wed May 26, 2021 6:34 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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D.R. Greenlaw
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Re: Pro Vs Debut 13.5
You might also want to check if Lost Marble offers a special educational price for Pro. Doesn't hurt to ask, especially if you're buying multiple copies.
NEW! Visit our Little Green Dog Channel on YouTube!
D.R. Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog
Little Green Dog Channel | Greenlaw's Demo Reel Channel
D.R. Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog
Little Green Dog Channel | Greenlaw's Demo Reel Channel
Re: Pro Vs Debut 13.5
Debut is so hobbled that the only use is a teaser for Pro.
Get Pro
And talk to Mike and Victor. Getting Moho to students has some big advantages for future sales.
Dale
Get Pro
And talk to Mike and Victor. Getting Moho to students has some big advantages for future sales.
Dale
Re: Pro Vs Debut 13.5
They do offer up to 50% discount for Educational users -> https://moho.lostmarble.com/pages/education
Moho 14.3 » Win 11 Pro 64GB » NVIDIA GTX 1080ti 11GB
Moho 14.3 » Mac mini 2012 8GB » macOS 10.15 Catalina
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Sam
Moho 14.3 » Mac mini 2012 8GB » macOS 10.15 Catalina
Tube: SimplSam
Sam
Re: Pro Vs Debut 13.5
Thankyou for the detailed response Greenlaw, that was just what I was looking for. On balance it is difficult to resist Pro but I might go for a much reduced number of licences, or perhaps even a mix of Debut and Pro. I got a response from Lostmarble a couple of weeks ago confirming the discount for a bulk education order, but what people may not immediately realise is that for education you are buying 20 or 40 or more seats, not one, so the price difference becomes significant. Thanks for taking the time, your breakdown list and thoughts are extremely useful.
James.
Re: Pro Vs Debut 13.5
Agree, thank you Greenlaw. I couldn't afford the Pro version, and am just doing this as a hobby. I can barely work with vector at this point! lol Thanks for giving us some tips with how to get around some of the shortcomings. And when you do bring back the Debut project, I'll be watching!