Moho slows down too much

[SuperSGL]

I can't even use Acrobat reader anymore because It started to lag so much. Might be better now haven't used it in awhile. It was a shame I always liked using that. I shut off I tunes as well (just from updates) they had a new update every day it seemed.

[chucky]

Norton is a virus in is itself , kick that thing.

I noticed that a few versions ago, having brushes displayed is the worst slowdown when using Moho.
It used to be that GPU helped a great deal when using freehand, but that doesn't work any more, quite the opposite.
GPU is still great for image based scenes with not too many masks.
Load up Crustacea from the library and it shows

Also when you are using freehand turn OFF autoweld but merge strokes.

That will help freehand performance.

[Daxel]

I've done some testing and:

1. FreeHand tool vs Add Points tool:
Drawing with the FreeHand tool doesn't seem to be impact performance much more than what the amount of points it produces should.

2. One layer vs many layers: Drawing a high number of points on a single vector layer slows Moho down regardless of the drawing tool used, but if the same amount of points are distributed over many layers, the result is much better.

To test this I used the FreeHand tool with 5 of point reduction and only the first level of smooth, auto stroke on and auto weld off, merge strokes on and off (merge strokes didn't have an impact on my test). With those settings, I just wrote until I noticed a slowdown. Writing with the FreeHand tool is very sensitive to performance. If you were drawing lines instead, you wouldn't notice the slowdown, but writing make it obvious because you see that the letters are not being drawn precisely. The slowdown is noticeable after three lines written on the same vector layer. But if I write one line on a layer and then the second line on a second layer, I was able to write 8 lines on 8 layers until I noticed a slow down.

Again, have in mind that the program is working perfectly on all these "slowdowns", it is imposible to notice them if you don't specifically write small letters relatively fast with the FreeHand tool. Everything else works fine here, so I guess that the real time calculations that the FreeHand tool has to make while drawing detailed small shapes like letters are sensitive to small variations in performance, and distributing the drawings over multiple layers helps a lot.

Powerfull PC, win 10, Moho 13.5.1

[Greenlaw]

1. FreeHand tool vs Add Points tool:
Drawing with the FreeHand tool doesn't seem to be impact performance much more than what the amount of points it produces should.

Oh, sorry...I didn't mean to imply that there was anything technically different about the curves created with Freehand vs Add Points. I only meant that Freehand tends to draw a bunch of points arbitrarily in number and placement; compared to Add Points, which draws only the number of points you want and where you want them.

Both tools create the same kind of curves, but with with different approaches. Freehand has a familiar 'pen' interface but the result can be far less efficient, and Add Points 'click and drag' interface offers more precise control over the result, but using it can be more time-consuming. For me, the latter is preferable because the extra time spent upfront can mean having a more responsive and enjoyable experience animating with Moho.

[Daxel]

Oh, sorry...I didsn't mean to imply that there was anything technically different about the curves create with Freehand vs Add Points.

Oh I know, it was me who said that I had a feeling that the FreeHand tool could be the problem, so I wanted to test it. I thought that because I remembered having the slowdowns using the FreeHand tool the other day, but turns out that I noticed that because I was writing so 1: creating a lot of points on the same layer impacting performance and 2: doing the only activity where I could notice the slowdown (writing).

By the way, I think that the FreeHand tool could be more useful if we could activate a "no beziers" mode where the program draws only normal points with default curvature so the drawings are easy to animate. An alternative way of achieving the same result could be to have a script to select a drawing and convert it to "no beziers" mode. But I don't know how hard is to do that. Of course we can draw something and then just reset the curvature of all points but doing so you get a potato.

[synthsin75]

By the way, I think that the FreeHand tool could be more useful if we could activate a "no beziers" mode where the program draws only normal points with default curvature so the drawings are easy to animate.

If you copy the freehand tool (and png) to your custom content folder, you can make a very small change to do that.
Starting at line 734:

Code: Select all

	if (mesh:CountPoints() > self.startingPoint + 2) then
		-- adaptive freehand, remove "straight" sections of the curve
		-- this algorithm starts at level 1 on the slider
		local epsilon = MOHO.SimplifyEpsilon(self.simplifyValue)
		mesh:Curve(mesh:CountCurves() - 1):SelectCurvePoints()
		moho:AddPointKeyframe(moho.drawingFrame)
--		mesh:SimplifyCurve(mesh:CountCurves() - 1, math.rad(self.angleTolerance))
		mesh:AdvancedCurveSimplification(mesh:CountCurves() - 1, moho.drawingLayerFrame, 0.0, epsilon, 0.01)
	end

...you just need to move the comment, "--", one line down. This will kill the code that sets beziers and use the previous code that doesn't.
The last three lines need to read:

Code: Select all

		mesh:SimplifyCurve(mesh:CountCurves() - 1, math.rad(self.angleTolerance))
--		mesh:AdvancedCurveSimplification(mesh:CountCurves() - 1, moho.drawingLayerFrame, 0.0, epsilon, 0.01)
	end

[LeviEnton]

If you are looking for a sketchy look you should check out the sketchy effects for vectors in the layer settings. Lots of options. I've used it many times

The text on this is just regular text in Moho with changes to the vector settings to create multiple strokes and movement without adding a bazillion points.



The fur on the dog is just a custom brush image I created. So no extra points required.

Thats some really nice work, thanks for sharing it! I have been using the vector settings too, but i just enjoy freehanding the drawings, and i use moho a lot for frame by frame stuff xD

[LeviEnton]

Well, it looks like I had time.

I looked at your file and, yeah, that's a crazy number of points if you're intention is to deform them using bones. I would definitely use Bake To PNG for this...if you're using bones and maybe even if you're not using bones; it depends on why you need all this point data.

About the only reason to have this much point data in the art is if you need to preserve resolution independence because of extreme scaling in a single continuous shot. Otherwise, using a bitmap at the appropriate size and resolution should work fine.

IMO, if this is the style you're going for, it might be more efficient to do the art in a paint program and import the layers to Moho for rigging and animations, as described above. Note that Moho Pro is capable of importing layered PSD files from Photoshop, Krita, CSP, Procreate and other paint programs. I usually prefer using PNG for various technical reasons, but either method helps make using third party paint programs with Moho very convenient. Hopefully, native bitmap painting for Moho will return in the future, but using separate program really isn't bad.

Oh, almost forgot, Moho has another option for importing Photoshop files: there's a Photoshop script in the Custom Contents folder under Extras called Export Layers To Moho.jsx . This is an older script but it could save out a Moho project file from Photoshop. I'm not sure it works for Moho 13.5.1 but from what I recall, it worked fine for ASP 11 and I think Moho 12.5.

Very cool drawing, by the way! Thanks for sharing it.
( )

Thanks for your great input on things! And yeah, using other programs and then exporting it as png is obviously the way to go for most complex drawings when animating in anime studio, like Background art, assets, textures or detailed character models. It would be cool though if the Bitmap Tools make a return in future Moho versions - it would be reason enough for me to finally upgrade.

[Daxel]

If you copy the freehand tool (and png) to your custom content folder, you can make a very small change to do that.

Oh I didn't know that! I will try, thanks.

[Daxel]

The last three lines need to read:

Code: Select all

		mesh:SimplifyCurve(mesh:CountCurves() - 1, math.rad(self.angleTolerance))
--		mesh:AdvancedCurveSimplification(mesh:CountCurves() - 1, moho.drawingLayerFrame, 0.0, epsilon, 0.01)
	end

I did that and I think that the beziers are not being modified, but now the curves are blocky: if I draw circles, the points seem to be conected through straight lines, with no curvature. The good thing is that, when I reset the curvature of all the points, the drawing doesn't turn into a potato so much, and the blockiness dissapear so only a few adjustments are needed.

[synthsin75]

I did that and I think that the beziers are not being modified, but now the curves are blocky: if I draw circles, the points seem to be conected through straight lines, with no curvature. The good thing is that, when I reset the curvature of all the points, the drawing doesn't turn into a potato so much, and the blockiness dissapear so only a few adjustments are needed.

Other freehand settings might contribute to that, but yeah, beziers really help match the actual drawn strokes.