Please help me figure one thing out

[yotsuba]

Moho was always a breeze to work on. The software never placed a heavy load on my computer. The only headache me and my coworker ever faced were some constant crashing that appeared dependant on the project we were working on. We were delighted with update 15.5.3, that solved the crash issue and added the UI improvements. The problem is that after the update Moho is running slowly, I get a lot of freezes and spinning wheels when I try to move characters, preview or edit, depending of the file I'm editing.

Before update 15.5.3, me and my colleague were preparing to start a new animation project, creating the rigs. We started animating after the update rolled out. The new rigs we made were based on a tutorial from youtube (https://youtu.be/XTfDVOsvDMA), and they contain a lot of hidden bones and complex parenting. While we were rigging on version 15.5.2 we didn't face any problems (besides crashing now and then), but when we started animating, after te upadate, things started to get complicated.

First I thought it could be my computer. I'm working on a 2014 i7 macbook pro, with 16gb of ram. But my coworker is using a 2013 mac pro with xeon E5 and 64gb of ram, and the files also keeps freezing.

We tried opening a file from our previous project, with much more simpler rigs, and we didn't find any difficulties or slowing when animating and previewing.

Here is a file that slows Moho down, for anyone who wishes to help me test this https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jrlmoL ... sp=sharing

What I wish to know is if the program keeps freezing and slowing down because of the rig (the most probable cause), the update or our computers. I was very excited to work with more complex and versatile rigs, but with them slowing the program like is happening to me, I'll have to ditch it in favor of an undemanding option.

[Víctor Paredes]

Hello, Yotsuba
I have tested your file on different versions of Moho (including 13.5.2 and 13.5.4) and I can see the performance of this file is the same on all of them.
If you are experimenting a slowdown, I think it probably has to do with the complexity of the rig plus having a reference of it.

For some reason I can't find yet, the Dynamics on this characters are very heavy, so maybe this can help: Go to Animation and check 'Allow frame skipping' and uncheck 'Enable bone dynamics'.

I hope this helps.

[mohgirl]

After I open your file, I can't do anything and keep turning around

[sang820]

Maybe this tutorial will help you
Running slow on my device, it's a problem with the model.

1-Moho model, not the more complex the better. Overly complex interactions can slow down operations or crash.
2-Don't do all the corrections on the bone layer. 70% skeletal action + 30% node layer manual modification of keyframes, the most cost-effective.
3-Moho is not 3D, Moho is 2D.

good luck

[Daxel]

Hi. I made some tests and, at least here on windows 10, I can confirm that as Victor said, Moho 13.5.4's performance is the same as version 13.5.2. Notice that the latest version is 13.5.4 and not 13.5.3. I recomend you to upgrade to the latest version that is working better than ever.

I can also confirm that Victor's advice of disabling bone dynamics and enabling frame skipping works very well. Without disabling dynamics Moho is almost unusable, so they seem to be the major problem here.

But there is another problem in this rig: corrupted references. I see this a lot, way more than negative keyframes, but seems to be a pretty unknown problem so I would like to understand how to reproduce it to try to help Moho's team to solve it. It usually happens on broken references with some channels not referenced (you can see that in the timeline hovering over the channel icon of the reference layer). To fix it you can delete the reference and create it again, or you can update the reference and then syncronize all channels (only updating the reference usually doesn't fix the problem).

When I fixed the two references of your project (Rosto 2 layer first, and then Helena 2), Moho's performance while playing your animation went from 8 frames per second to 20 frames per second (250% improvement). You can check the frames per second yourself on the far right of the tool tips bar. And your corrupted references were not as bad as others I have seen. Fixing them made the project file 100-200 kb lighter, but I have seen corrupted references that weighted 2Mb.

I think Moho's team is doing a fantastic job killing bugs so far so I guess this one has it's days numbered.

[yotsuba]

Hello, Yotsuba
I have tested your file on different versions of Moho (including 13.5.2 and 13.5.4) and I can see the performance of this file is the same on all of them.
If you are experimenting a slowdown, I think it probably has to do with the complexity of the rig plus having a reference of it.

For some reason I can't find yet, the Dynamics on this characters are very heavy, so maybe this can help: Go to Animation and check 'Allow frame skipping' and uncheck 'Enable bone dynamics'.

I hope this helps.

Thanks for your feedback Victor,

Yeah seems like bone dinamics is affecting it. I tried disabling only bone dinamics and it was enough to make the program run a little more smooth. Disabling frame skipping reduces the frame rate a lot, and doesn't help much.

Maybe this tutorial will help you
Running slow on my device, it's a problem with the model.

1-Moho model, not the more complex the better. Overly complex interactions can slow down operations or crash.
2-Don't do all the corrections on the bone layer. 70% skeletal action + 30% node layer manual modification of keyframes, the most cost-effective.
3-Moho is not 3D, Moho is 2D.

good luck

Hi Yang. I wanna try rigging like you too, but sometimes it's hard to compare with someone with 10+ years experience with this software, hehe. I follow you on youtube and I think you work is magnificent. The way you use bone dinamics on your characters clothes and hair, makes it so smooth, flowy and natural. I love it.
Do you think the way of rigging I used is more like 3D animation? Unfortunately I'm not very versed on 3D animation, so I don't know much about it.

Hi. I made some tests and, at least here on windows 10, I can confirm that as Victor said, Moho 13.5.4's performance is the same as version 13.5.2. Notice that the latest version is 13.5.4 and not 13.5.3. I recomend you to upgrade to the latest version that is working better than ever.

But there is another problem in this rig: corrupted references. I see this a lot, way more than negative keyframes, but seems to be a pretty unknown problem so I would like to understand how to reproduce it to try to help Moho's team to solve it. It usually happens on broken references with some channels not referenced (you can see that in the timeline hovering over the channel icon of the reference layer). To fix it you can delete the reference and create it again, or you can update the reference and then syncronize all channels (only updating the reference usually doesn't fix the problem).

When I fixed the two references of your project (Rosto 2 layer first, and then Helena 2), Moho's performance while playing your animation went from 8 frames per second to 20 frames per second (250% improvement). You can check the frames per second yourself on the far right of the tool tips bar. And your corrupted references were not as bad as others I have seen. Fixing them made the project file 100-200 kb lighter, but I have seen corrupted references that weighted 2Mb.

I think Moho's team is doing a fantastic job killing bugs so far so I guess this one has it's days numbered.

Well, that's strange. My software is on version 15.5.3 and when I try to update it, says it's already on the latest version. The UI improvements were released on 15.5.3 right?

WOW, thats it, I think. Fixing the layer reference helped a lot. That and disabling bone dinamics makes it seems like the problem never existed. I'll take more care about that when rigging new characters. Thanks for your help Daxel, it really meant a lot!

[Greenlaw]

Try downloading Moho from the website. The latest downloadable is 13.5.4.

[almin]

1. the file you uploaded to google drive has missing assets - so i ignored these
2. pressing playback is super slow
3. I hid (in layers click on the eye to hide or show) the following: fundo-mesa.png and Helena 2 the animation was smooth. Showing Helena 2 goes back to frame-by-frame type animation where there is at least 3 seconds between each frame.

Using Moho 13.5.4 on Windows 10 pro for Workstation with dual Xeon E5-2667 V4 and 512GB RAM.

good luck getting support from Moho, super slow to respond to issues.

[Arthritic]

good luck getting support from Moho, super slow to respond to issues.

Oh please don't say that, I just bought my copy of Pro yesterday - lol.

[Daxel]

Oh please don't say that, I just bought my copy of Pro yesterday - lol.

Oh, welcome! Actually, not only they (Victor Paredes, Moho's product manager) already gave him support in this post 2 hours after being posted, but also you will see we have a pretty helpful community here.

[Arthritic]

Well thanks for the welcome Daxel and yes, I see that Victor answered the question within 2 hours, (someone has a rash ). You ask me, I'd say that's pretty damn good as most companies are 24 to 48 hours for any type of support response.

Anywho . . . looking forward to pickin' a bunch of brains around here. See ya round Daxel.

[yotsuba]

Try downloading Moho from the website. The latest downloadable is 13.5.4.

Last friday it updated alone to the latest version, I did not need to do anything. The BIG TECH really can hear us, lol