Animated Layer Order not working?

[jeremiahbabers]

Animated layer order usually works for me but I've seen a few situations where it can 'break'. Usually this is when the order has a keyframe in a Smart Bone Action--this can override what you keyframe on the regular timeline.

this solve my problem thanks

[sang820]

It's not a bug, it's Moho's rule. Actions including [Layer Order Keyframe] and [Single Layer Color Order Keyframe] will cover the keyframes on the main line. So I only make character animation in [Action], and make sequential animation of object occlusion in the main line. It's a bit of a hassle, but it's safe.

[Greenlaw]

Yes, I agree with Sang, this is definitely not a bug!

I should have clarified that the potential for keyframe conflict is just something you need to be aware of when setting up your Smart Bone Actions. Sometimes, just because you can animate something inside a Smart Bone Action doesn't mean you should animate it that way.

I love using Smart Bone Actions but for character elements that are easy enough to animate directly without using a Smart Bone, I'll avoid using a Smart Bone because it may impose limitations, and using a Smart Bone to change layer order is one such situation. This is okay to do but understand that you might be sacrificing some animation flexibility, and using the Smart Bone approach in this case isn't necessarily saving you time.

Eyes are another good example. Some users (usually beginners) will create complex Smart Bone Action setups to move the iris inside the eye area. But really, isn't it easier to simply bind the iris artwork to bone and just drag the bone where you want it? But for blinking the eyelids, yeah, Smart Bone Dials are totally the way to go.

So, before creating elaborate Smart Bone setups in a character, carefully consider if the feature is actually going to make animating the character easier and more efficient.

Hope this helps.

[SuperSGL]

If you want to get really sophisticated about it, you can build in animated masks to parts of your character. I recently used this method to animate a character's hands moving from behind and wrapping around ropes that were hanging in front of the character.

I can't seem to wrap my head around this masking technique I've seen some examples but...(even downloaded a file using it) can't seem to figure it out. Are there any tutorials on this effect? I remember this was a very cool idea.

[jahnocli]

One of the things that helped me with masking is the realisation that Moho evaluates layers from the bottom upwards. So masks are on the bottom of a particular pile, and affect the layers above.

[Greenlaw]

I can't seem to wrap my head around this masking technique I've seen some examples but...(even downloaded a file using it) can't seem to figure it out. Are there any tutorials on this effect? I remember this was a very cool idea.

Hmm...since this is referencing a post I made in 2016, I was probably talking about using animated Stroke Exposure in masks for wrapping limbs around the torso. For example, the Puss-in-Boots rig used that method, and I probably used it in the Thighsander Plunderhorse rigs for King Julien. Animating shapes works for this too but at the time I thought using Stroke Exposure was pretty cool.

Since those days, I found using visibility switches for duplicate layers is easier to set up and more effective so I don't use Stroke Exposure for this anymore. But if you like, I can throw together a basic demo and walkthrough. I've been wanting to do a full tutorial on various 'limb-wrapping' methods, so this could be a good warm up exercise for me.

[SuperSGL]

It's been awhile but I do remember something about the stroke exposure. I believe thats what it was, but like you said the visibility duplicates and of course now the vitruvian bones probably use those anyway. As far as a tutorial that would be awesome hope you can find the time. I know I've seen some complaints about some of the tutorials that are out there especially some of the newer ones. I've learned more from this forum then most of the tutorials anyway (there are exceptions)

[Greenlaw]

It's been awhile but I do remember something about the stroke exposure. I believe thats what it was, but like you said the visibility duplicates and of course now the vitruvian bones probably use those anyway.

I'm not sure Vitruvian Bones would help here. V-Bones are a great way to switch between 'sub-rigs', for example switching between a jointed arm to a noodle arm.

Using Stroke Exposures works well when you need the mask to slide up and down the arm/limb to reveal different regions. In one copy of the limb group, the stroke masks the limb downward and in the other group the stroke reveals the limb downward but in different stacking position. Naturally, you need to invert the stroke mask in duplicate. Tip: makes sure you disable antialiasing for the stroke mask layers, otherwise you will get a fine gap where the two mask edges align. You don't need/want anti-aliasing for this since it's not a visible layer and the mask effect will look better with AA disabled.

Where this setup doesn't work so great is when the elbow area needs to be close to the body or when the arm has a extremely irregular shape. The King Julien characters are a good example: Thighsander Plunderhorse uses Stroke Exposure because her arms are fairly narrow and straight; Norge Grendelfist could not use this technique because of his arms were very large in the upper area and very narrow in the lower. You can sort of compensate for this by setting up appropriate Stroke Widths but it's more trouble than it's worth.

I think I this was the point where I decided using layer visibility was the way to go since it doesn't have these limitations. This technique doesn't slide up and down the arm but, TBH, you only need the separation at the elbow for most characters.

I might still use the Stroke Exposure technique for characters with tentacle limbs or maybe a long tail. Alternatively, you can use a regular shape that deforms along a bone change or curve as a mask.

For simpler rigs or when I'm in a hurry, I just use regular Animated Layer Order with no SBD controlling it. I keep the limb segments in their own groups (i.e. armLo_R groups contains lower arm artwork and hand group, armUp_R contains the upper arm artwork and hand group, etc.,) and I just drag them to the stacking positions I need I need during animation. I try to keep all the keyframe in one layer (usually the Bone layer) to make editing easy. Also it helps to color code the groups for easy identification, for example different colors for left and right side limbs. This method may not be 'sexy' but it works reliably and, in many cases, it's easy to animate. (Animated Layer Order is actually a capability unique to Moho; even After Effects does not have this feature.)

For selecting the limb section groups quickly, Layer Shortcuts would be great tool. Unfortunately, I recently found a problem with this script when importing the rig. Hopefully it gets fixed because this is a terrific tool for selection any layer inside a rig, even deeply nested ones. (I used it a lot for Switch layers.)

Until then, you can use a native Moho method for selecting groups: use Shift-Alt Click to click on the limb section artwork in the Workspace. This selects the parent group that the artwork is a child of. So, when you Shift-Alt Click on the forearm, Moho will select the armLo group instead. This doesn't work so well when you have multiple nested groups but if you know how your rig is structured, this direct selection method works well.

Hope this helps.

(Note: edited for a bunch of typos and clarity. Probably more edits to come.)

[Greenlaw]

As far as a tutorial that would be awesome hope you can find the time.

It's been super busy (as usual) but I'm working on several tutorials as I'm able to, including one about these techniques. I want to get out some basic and practical Moho videos first, and then I'll get into the more advanced and obscure stuff. I'll post an announcement in the usual places when they're ready.