layer bone don't stay in place on the scene

[viccho]

hi everyone
i have a char on layer bone. I set my layer in place on the scene (position and scale), but if i go ti frame 1 my char is not at the position and scale i've set on frame 0. So i try to set the position in frame 1, but if i go to frame 2 it change. I really don't understand what appended. Is someone can help me?
Thank you

[Greenlaw]

To me, it sounds like the artwork is not properly bound to the bones or the layers might not be located inside their Bones group.

Can you post the project or screen caps? It's not possible to troubleshoot this further without seeing what you're working with.

[viccho]

thank you for answer me. what kind of screen caps you need? the layers pannel? how can i send you a picture? using wetranfert? flickr? what is unsualy used here? (sorry i'm new)

[Daxel]

The best thing you can do is upload the moho file. That way people help you way better. Any cloud storage service like onedrive, google drive or dropbox will let you share any file with a link. If you want you can delete any non necesary layer or drawing that you don't want to share.

[viccho]

hi here is the link of my project https://drive.google.com/file/d/10eQVio ... sp=sharing

[Daxel]

hi here is the link of my project https://drive.google.com/file/d/10eQVio ... sp=sharing

You have two problems here, both with your actions.

The first problem is that you have unwanted keyframes for some bones and some layer properties (those are the ones that reposition the character) inside some of the actions, specifically BLINK and A E U i O P M L /. I deleted those and now the character stays where it was. But his face is still changing a little bit when you go to the frame 1. That's because of the second problem.

The second problem is that you have a few smartactions, like A E U i O P M L /, that has two different keyframes for the default (the one at frame 0) smarbone angle ( in this case, it's 90º). When your smartbone is, at any point in your smartaction, at its default angle, any keyframes in that specific point should be the same as at frame 0 or those keyframes will be activated by default (at any frame later than 0). To avoid this, when I have a smartaction where the smartbone is at the same default angle at some point, I manually keyframe it at that default angle and copy paste the keyframes of any animated element, from 0 to this frame where I have the smartbone at the default angle. I'm actually not sure right now if that practice is necesary or if it's something I do to have a cleaner rig. I have been doing it for so long that I don't know what problems may arise from not doing it.

If you are reading this, Greenlaw, do you do that?

[Greenlaw]

Hi,

Sorry, I haven't had a chance to look at the file yet or fully read the comments above, but regarding Smart Bone Actions and keyframing, I always keyframe frame 1 and make sure this is a copy of keyframe 0. Additionally, the keyframe at 1 is set to Linear, and keyframe 0 is set to whatever I need it to be on the Mainline. (Usually it's Smooth, but it can be Step when I'm using the Smart Bone to control a Switch layer.)

The reasons:

The animation in a Smart Bone Action begins at frame 1, not 0, so I normally want frame 1 to be exactly what I have at frame 0. If I don't create the duplicate keyframe at frame 1, then frame 1 becomes an interpolation between frame 0 and the next keyframe. This can result in an unwanted pop or glitch on the Mainline.

Frame 1 is set to Linear because I need the animation to play at a constant rate inside the Action. This makes it easier to keep in sync all the channels and layers used in the Action. This does not mean the animation has to play back Linear on the Mainline because the playback speed there is determined by turning the Smart Bone and those keyframes can use any interpolation I want. This is why I have a keyframe at frames 0 and 1 inside the Action: The keyframe at 1 sets the default interpolation mode for the animation in the action, and the keyframe at frame 0 sets the default interpolation mode for the animation on the mainline.

Naturally, the default interpolation mode needs to be set to Use Previous Key for the above system to work efficiently.

Hope this helps.

I'll check the file and read the comments more carefully as soon as I'm able to.

[Daxel]

...regarding Smart Bone Actions and keyframing, I always keyframe frame 1 and make sure this is a copy of keyframe 0.

Yeah but I mean, when you have a smart action that doesn't have the "separate actions for positive and negative angles" ticked, so you have a "0 state" in the middle of the smart action, like on a head turn for example. In those cases I carefully keyframe that "0 state" in the middle with the smartbone and all the animated elements how they were on frame 0 to avoid those "double 0 states", but I frecuently see rigs where the riggers didn't care about that and the face or something in the character suddenly changes when going from frame 0 to 1 on the main timeline because of this "double 0 state" problem.

[viccho]

thank you so much, it's all clear. you're explaination are great. Thank you for the time you've taken. have a nice night or day or both

[Greenlaw]

Yeah but I mean, when you have a smart action that doesn't have the "separate actions for positive and negative angles" ticked...

I never use the Make Smart Bone Dial command because I always wind up changing its settings and result. For me, it's quicker and less troublesome to create the Smart Bone manually and set it to do exactly what I need from the start.

[Greenlaw]

It's been a very long time since I last used Make Smart Bone Dial so I thought I should check it out in 13.5.5 and see if any improvements have been made.

Nope. When I use this command, I still have to change almost every setting and then make changes to the result. So for me anyway using this tool creates extra work. IMO, it's better to create Smart Bone Dials manually.

[viccho]

For me, it's quicker and less troublesome to create the Smart Bone manually

seems interesting, is there a tuto online that explain the way to do this ? or is it easy to explain here by text?

[viccho]

create a bone, add an action and constrain bone angle ?

[Daxel]

I never use the Make Smart Bone Dial command because I always wind up changing its settings and result. For me, it's quicker and less troublesome to create the Smart Bone manually and set it to do exactly what I need from the start.

I usually do the same, but the concept of separate smartactions for each direction of a smarbone, or a single smartaction for both directions, remains the same even if you do the smartbone manually.

[Greenlaw]

For me, it's quicker and less troublesome to create the Smart Bone manually

seems interesting, is there a tuto online that explain the way to do this ? or is it easy to explain here by text?

I thought about this after Daxel's comment, and I should clarify that it's probably just easier for me because I've done this so many times and know exactly what I need as I'm creating a smart bone. The menu command method really does the same thing but the defaults aren't what I typically use. If I was able to set my own defaults in the menu command I'd probably use it, so It really is more of a preference or personal habit thing.

Anyway, to create a smart bone dial manually, you need to first create the bone and name it. I usually create a 'panel' of dials, with the bones oriented in the direction I want (vertical for L/R control, horizontal for U/P). This is one of the reasons I prefer doing this manually because the command method creates only one bone at a time and it always points the bone upward.

Next I set the angle constraints. I generally prefer the default 70 degree setting from the Constraints panel because it takes less room in the workspace, but the command version defaults at 90 so I almost always need to change these. Also, setting the constraints is more visual with the panel: just click and drag the angle you want. (Use mid-MB drag if you're using 12.5 and earlier.) Since I like creating the entire panel at once, I can set the constraints on a selected group of bones so I don't need to do this individually.

When I create a Smart Bone, the time slider is already at frame one, so if I click the bone, a rotation key with the same angle is set. Then I change the new key to Linear. After that, I decide the duration and rotate my dial at the end frame. With the command version, since the last keyframe is already set, I have to select zero and copy it to frame 1...otherwise, the key at frame one will be have an interpolated value.

When the bone has a name and you create an action, the smart bone action is automatically created with that name. When you create the reverse angle action, it does the same but with the number appended. When you use the command version, you still need to name it in the dialog...the advantage here is that if you already know you need a bi-directional control, the command version does both directions at once.

One thing the command does that's nice is that it sets the bone strength to zero when you create it. But since I like to create the entire panel of bones from the start, I can set the bone strength for all the bones at one time. (I just have be careful I don't have other bones unintentionally selected.)

So...after writing this, I can see it's really not more or less work to create Smart Bones manually vs automatically, it's just a different workflow. There are advantages and disadvantages with each but, for me, I still prefer creating the Smart Bones myself.

But here's something I used to do that made setting up Smart Bones go a bit faster...

Tip #1: I mentioned that I liked making the whole panel of bones before turning them into dials. As a matter of fact, I used to have a pre-made panel of already named bones that I would re-use when rigging new character. These bones were all parented to a single 'mover' bone. When rigging, I simply attached this to character's root bone and I was ready to go.

It's a timesaver that I should start using again. I think I stopped only because I was working on Fast & Furious: Spy Racers for a few years and didn't use Moho as routinely there as I did on our other shows.

Tip #2: Parent a 'leveler' bone with Independent Angle enabled to the character's root bone and then parent the 'mover' bone to this one. This keeps the SBD panel leveled even when you rotate the character.)



Once set up, enable Shy for the 'leveler' bone...you don't want to animate this or need to see it even.

Tipi #3: When drawing your bone 'panel', press Ctrl-G. This enables the grid and it helps you create your panel with consistant bone sizes and perfect alignment. When you're done drawing the bones, press Ctrl-G again to disable and hide the grid.