Is this a bug? or am I crazy?

[NealF]

Yikes.
I've had this same problem for years and now that I'm getting more serious about my skills, here it is again!

Sometimes, when I have more than one bone Flexi bound to a layer (image file) I can get the 2 bones independently influencing the layer. Sometimes not.
I go over and over the process. It'll work on one arm, say, and not the other. Very random.

Another problem is with target bones. I set a bone for each foot. No strength, no parenting. Foot bone targeted to the target bone.
Looks fine. Then I hit the Z key (or any other key) then the Target bone and that layer go all out of shape and position. I get around it by going to frame 1 and repositioning.

I've been through a course on rigging, and dozens of tutorials. I believe I'm doing it right. But I can never get it to work right.

I'm on Moho Pro 12.5. Really frustrating.

[Greenlaw]

Hi NealF,

If you can post some examples, that should make it easier to offer feedback for what's going on. For now, here are some guesses...

Moho has two methods for Flexi-bind.

1. Flexi-bind is the default method and in this mode, every bone with any amount of strength has an influence on a layer.

Since this is the default method, it's active as soon as you create a layer, but if you think you messed something up, just select the suspected layers and choose the command Reset All Bone Rigging. Don't worry, this scary-sounding command will simply reset the selected layer to use the regular Flexi-bind mode. It's very handy when part of your rig goes wrong...I find that resetting and rebinding is often a lot easier and quicker than spending a lot time figuring out what went wrong and trying to repair it.

Note: Make sure you have what you want to fix selected before using this command because when you've selected nothing, it assumes you wish to reset everything.

2. Use Selected Bones For Flexi-binding or as I prefer to call it 'Selective Flexi-binding' (because the official name is a mouthful,) works with only the bones you choose for the selected layers. To use this method...

a. first choose the Select Bone tool
b. select the layers you wish to bind (you can choose more than one,)
c. then select the bones (you can choose more than one,)
d. choose Use Selected Bones For Flexi-binding (Shift+Ctrl+F)

Now these layer(s) will be affected by only the bone(s) from your selection. This is handy, for example, when you want the right arm artwork layers to be affected by only the right arm bones, and so on.

Note that this doesn't mean artwork that wasn't bound to these bones won't still be affected by these bones. To exclude them, you should use Selective Flexi-binding on that artwork their own bones.

There was a time when I used Selective Flexi-binding almost exclusively in a character so every layer was bound to specific bones this way. For props and other items that needed to move with a single bone, I would use Layer Bind. Nowadays, I tend to use Point Binding a lot but it really depends on the type of deformation I want from the rig, so it's good to get familiar with all the methods and understand their unique strengths and limitations.

As for the Target Bone issue, I don't know what could be going on. Pressing Z simply switches to the Manipulate Bones tool, which should not affect the bones position until you use the tool. If you mean it goes crazy while you're using the tool that makes me think you have bones and artwork at different z-depth levels, or there is something whacky going on in a Smart Bone Action. It might also be something wrong with object hierarchy and/or layer origins. Seeing an example project will make this easier to figure out.

Hope this helps.

[NealF]

Hi.

Your tip about resetting a specific bone(s) worked well. I re did all the bones and had an issue again where it just wasn't working right. Did the reset on the problem bone and it worked fine.

I also re-did the target bones and still having that distortion when I press z or s. Goes back to normal when I press b.
I'm looking for a way to either upload the file or short video. Is there a way to do that here?

[Greenlaw]

I like to use Dropbox to host my images and files. If you don't need a lot of space, you can use it for free: https://www.dropbox.com/basic

There are a few things to know before you use Dropbox with the Lost Marble forums. For images, read this post...

Dropbox Info


There helpful general info about using Dropbox in that post so be sure to read it before continuing with the next instruction.

For files (i.e., Moho projects,) you want to change the end of the link from dl=0 to dl=1. This makes the link download directly instead of sending the user to your Dropbox folder. If you want to give the link a custom name, select the entire link and click the Insert URL button in the Edit Post window. Then edit the link as shown in the tool tip (hover of them button to see it.)

If your project has multiple files (i.e., images, audio, etc.,) it's best to zip the files and share the .zip. For that, I like to use the free 7-zip or PeaZip programs.

Hope this helps.

[NealF]

I uploaded two screen shots. One before hitting the Z, or S keys and one after.
The A, B, and T keys don't screw up the positions.

In your instruction re changing dl=0 and change it to raw=1, I can't find that in the links I copied.


https://www.dropbox.com/pri/get/Lost%20 ... DdHVmgMc3w

https://www.dropbox.com/pri/get/Lost%20 ... hkc8rxMcWw

[Greenlaw]

Hi,

Maybe you're copying the page URL and not the Dropbox link? They're different things. The Dropbox one is a secure 'coded' link you can share.

To get the Dropbox link to the file, go to the file in Dropbox on your desktop, r-click over the file and choose Copy Dropbox Link... You MUST use this command. (Note: If you're using Windows 11, you might need to select Show More Options first to see the option. There's a way to disable that but, jeez Microsoft!)

The link you copy will look something like this...

Code: Select all

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fhttgjetkkdkmd4/MohoCat.png?dl=0

and you change it to this...

Code: Select all

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fhttgjetkkdkmd4/MohoCat.png?raw=1

When you wrap that with the Image button you should get this...



Hope this helps.

[NealF]

OK. Here are the corrected links.



[img]

Just to keep it all together, pressing Z and S make it distort. Pressing A, T and B doesn't.
This is a vector image. But it's much worse on a raster file.

The two bottom bones are Target bones. Each connected to it's own foot. No strength on the targets.

Thanks.

[Hoptoad]

The two bottom bones are Target bones...

This happened to me. Selecting Z made the legs go bonkers. I had failed to do create the target bones properly.

I'm no expert on target bones, so my only advice is to give your bones names, if you haven't.

In my case, the error was located in Target menu. A bone was assigned wrong.

Good luck finding the error. It's an easy mistake to make, but also an easy fix (if that's it). Check all the bones - not just the target bones.

[Hoptoad]

Hey, I just duplicated the problem.

The right leg links to the left target bone.
The left leg links to the right target bone.

This explains why the legs cross.

[Greenlaw]

I don't bother with the Constraint menu for that. To set target bones I prefer to...

1. Select the Parent Bone tool
2. with Alt click, select the bone that will point to a target bone
3. then Ctrl click the target bone

I find this is easier because it's direct and doesn't involve looking for the target bone's name in the menu. Also, this technique is keyframeable so I can switch target bones or untarget the bone during animation.

And I agree...all bones should have sensible names. Only a masochist would want to work with the default names.

Hope this helps.

[NealF]

Hey, I just duplicated the problem.

The right leg links to the left target bone.
The left leg links to the right target bone.

This explains why the legs cross.

I checked again. They're linked correctly. I'm calling Left and Right by the character's perspective. Not mine.

[NealF]

1. Select the Parent Bone tool
2. with Alt click, select the bone that will point to a target bone
3. then Ctrl click the target bone


And I agree...all bones should have sensible names. Only a masochist would want to work with the default names.

Hope this helps.

Hmm. I tried what you suggested. Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Here's what happened:

1. I selected the (re)Parent tool
2. Alt clicked on the bone that will point to the target bone (That's one of the feet bones.)
3. Then I Ctrl clicked the target bone that that foot bone is connected to.

When I Ctrl click, nothing happens. The Target bone doesn't get red or re-parented.
I tried it also with Command clicking on the target just for laughs. Still nothing.

I just re did all the bones. Same thing. But I did notice a little more detail.
What's actually happening that repositions the layer is that the target bone, when I hit Z, goes from the attached point of the foot bone to the other end. The skinny pointed end. It just slides across which moves the layer.

[synthsin75]

Looks like you have the feet bones targeting, but your targets are place where the leg bones would target them.
Bones always point at their target, off frame zero or using manipulate bones.

[Greenlaw]

2. Alt clicked on the bone that will point to the target bone (That's one of the feet bones.)

Normally you shouldn't target with the tip of the foot bone. It's better to target at the ankle (the tip of the lower leg bone.)

After doing that, set the Constraint for the foot bone to use Independent Angle. This means will need to keyframe the rotation of the foot during animation but it will stay planted to the ground when the character is performing in place, so no need to ever use Lock Bone. (For me, this is easier and more flexible than using the Lock Bone command.)

[NealF]

Ah!
I just re did the target bones and targeted the leg bones to the target instead of the foot bones.
This worked!

But it seems to only work on a character that has 2 leg bones and 2 feet.
My original character had a big round torso and 2 feet sticking out from under him. No legs. When I tried this on this character I ran into the same type of problem.
I seems I need a fuller understanding of how target bones work. Not just for the straight ahead type characters.

I don't understand why yet, but this is progress.