MOV out of sync

[Gibble]

Hey Gang!
***WARNING: Possibly OffTopic: This question includes Adobe Premiere therefore it might not belong here- if so, just let me know and I'll remove it. I just figured others may have encountered this exact same issue. ***

Problem: Audio + Video out of sync when combining the files in Adobe Premiere
1. Moho: I rendered a .MOV file [video only] at 24fps [see settings below]
2. Adobe Premiere: when I import that Video file into Premiere, it is no longer in sync. The specs are identical though. Both at 24fps.

Additional Notes:
The framerates are identical in Moho and Premiere. Both are 24fps.
The MP3 I used to animate to in Moho was exported directly from Premiere first and only used for the lip-sync and acting reference. Thinking that the MP3 might have been the issue, I checked it vs the original Premiere file. I re-imported the MP3 into Premiere and laid it above the original and that audio lines up! So this is baffling. It is only the Video that doesn't line up. I'm confused

[Greenlaw]

MP3 is unsuitable for animation audio syncing because of how the data is compressed. It sounds fine for normal playback, but don't count on it for frame-by-frame accuracy.

For animation audio, use uncompressed .aif or .wav. If the audio is to be imported as a reference (like for lip-syncing,) use 16-bit mono. This should be very accurate for frame-by-frame stepping.

If you're exporting the audio from an editorial program, check that the output starts from the correct frame. Lately, I've been using Vegas 21 for my animatic, and I found that when I batch export my scene audio clips, Vegas always includes a single frame from the previous scene in the clip, which throws off the image/audio sync by one frame. In Moho, I have to offset the audio, and it's fine. When I finish my animation in Moho and export the footage for Vegas, it stays in sync with the audio in Vegas. Premiere probably doesn't have this offset problem, but check to be sure.

BTW, if you're also importing video as a reference in Moho and need frame-by-frame accuracy, it's always best to use a fast-loading JPEG image sequence. This will always be frame-accurate and probably playback smoother in Moho than a video clip because it's less processor-intensive.

I don't normally export .mov from Moho, but when I do export directly to a video format, I like to use ProRes 422 because It's visually lossless and holds up well to re-exporting from an editorial program. For final videos (for streaming,) I like to use H.265 because it's decent quality and much more compact.

When the Moho export is for compositing (i.e., After Effects, Fusion or Nuke,) I ALWAYS export to image sequence. Then I'll export ProRes 422 from there for editorial.

I hope this helps.

[Gibble]

Thank you DR.

With the exception of the first audio export, I actually followed all of steps that you suggested. And normally that works out flawlessly.

Audio export settings: Great suggestions here DR! I'll certainly use this going forward: use uncompressed .aif or .wav. If the audio is to be imported as a reference (like for lip-syncing,) use 16-bit mono.

Here are the exact steps I took:
1. Premiere: Animatic Stage: Composite Audio in Premiere @ 24fps. Export an MP3 to use in:
2. Moho: Animation Stage: Import the MP3 for timing. Animate at 24fps. Export a PNG Image Sequence (has an alpha channel) @ 24 fps [no audio] that goes into:
3. After Effects: Compositing Stage: Import the PNG Image Sequence. Once completed, I'll render out an .MOV @24fps with Apple Pro Res 422. Then that MOV goes into:
4. Adobe Premiere: Final Compositing Stage: The final .MOV now goes on its own layer that is layered above the original audio. And this is where it is out of sync.
Note: The original MP3 that I used for timing in Moho doesn't make it to this stage. Instead I use the original uncompressed WAV files. However, to check the timing, I did import the MP3 track that I used for timing reference to see if they would still be in sync- and to my surprise both audio files are in perfect sync. So that is why this is so baffling. The visuals are the only piece that is out of sync


. Thanks so much for your great suggestions I'll keep digging around and hopefully find the culprit

[alanthebox]

3. After Effects: Compositing Stage: Import the PNG Image Sequence. Once completed, I'll render out an .MOV @24fps with Apple Pro Res 422.

I'm no expert when it comes to all things framerate related, but have found that After Effects will frequently import my PNG sequences at 29.97. So, I would just recommend making sure those image sequences in AE are interpreted as 24 fps (right click in the project browser, interpret footage, main). Definitely something that has tripped me up in the past!

[Greenlaw]

...have found that After Effects will frequently import my PNG sequences at 29.97. So, I would just recommend making sure those image sequences in AE are interpreted as 24 fps (right click in the project browser, interpret footage, main). Definitely something that has tripped me up in the past!

@alanthebox, Oh, that's a good point!

I ran into this, too, following a recent After Effects update, and I had to reset my preferred defaut settings.

I set my preferred default frame rate in Preferences>Import, but Ae can override this if it finds metadata for a different frame rate in the imported footage...this is technically correct but it might not always be what I want. You can change this for the select footage in the Interpret Footage>Main window.

@gibble, Yes, make sure the frame rate is the same for all the applications in your production pipeline. This one trips me up after updating a program or switching to another computer with different default settings.

Bonus tip for anyone who prefers the Ae timeline to start with frame 1 instead of 0: Create a new comp and set it to begin at frame 1. Then quit Ae. The next time you create a new comp in Ae, it should begin at frame 1 by default. I think you can also set this in File>Project Settings..., but I usually do what I just described.

[Greenlaw]

Here are the exact steps I took:

This sounds like you're doing everything correctly.

I'll think about what else could be going on, and certainly let us know here if you figure this out.

[Gibble]

3. After Effects: Compositing Stage: Import the PNG Image Sequence. Once completed, I'll render out an .MOV @24fps with Apple Pro Res 422.

I'm no expert when it comes to all things framerate related, but have found that After Effects will frequently import my PNG sequences at 29.97. So, I would just recommend making sure those image sequences in AE are interpreted as 24 fps (right click in the project browser, interpret footage, main). Definitely something that has tripped me up in the past!

THAT'S ITS!!! Thank you so much for this suggestion, Alan! AfterEffects did interpret the footage at 29.97 fps instead of 24 fps. Thanks so much for suggesting that. Although it wasn't a Moho-specific issue, I figured some other Moho Users did experience this too. I'm so happy that you read my thread and provided a solution. Although it was a dead simple fix, I can guarantee that I would not have figured that out on my own.

Thanks Alan! That was a big help!
And thanks to you too, DR! You are always such a great help!