Where is ProRes 4444 with alpha in Moho Pro 14?

[slowtiger]

File numbering can be corrected in the Finder: select all files and right-click "rename n objects".

[Greenlaw]

Try opening the ProRes+Alpha file in different players that can display the alpha.

I can see it in some players and editors I have but not all of them. The ProRes+Alpha files I'm rendering here contain an alpha channel, but I'm guessing it's tagged improperly for some programs to see it.

When I have time, I'll run a more comprehensive test.

For now, I suggest rendering a PNG image sequence and compiling that to ProRes using another program. (You can probably automate this using a macro program.)

[NealF]

I got a workaround.

I did what some of you suggested. Exported as image seq with png.

As I mentioned above, FCP screwed up the order for some reason.
I then imported into Motion instead and it worked find.
Exported as a mov with alpha. Tried importing the video into CSP but it didn't recognise the alpha.

But FCP did!
This works for now as I'm basically needing the transparent background in Motion to add background and lighting.

I'll try it again going straight to FCP just to see if it'll work this time.

[slowtiger]

This problem already exists in Moho 13.5, and since Mac OS 10.15. I can render in ProRes Alpha ALAC as well as in PNG Alpha PSM, whatever that means, but can't import this into FinalCut, another Apple product, with Alpha working.
I can't even play PNG Alpha PSM files on that Mac, but I can import them into TVPaint with working Alpha. Exporting with Alpha from TVP doesn't work in FinalCut either.

What I just did (in this project): re-built the whole section in Moho, just with the rendered video files, rendered it (as a full video wthout any transparent parts) and inserted in FinalCut. ("Wie so ein Tier" as we say in german.)

I'll be getting a new Mac Mini hopefully this week, after an installation orgy I will do more tests with Apple's most recent OS.

[NealF]

SlowTiger,

I'm currently on a new Mac Mini M2 and having this problem. I've got the latest FCP and OS.

But when Moho (12.5 was my previous version) renders, I can see as it's rendering if it's got a transparent background.
In 14, as it's rendering it looks like it's got a solid background. That's why I'm thinking Moho isn't rendering with the alpha.

Confusing, it is.

[slowtiger]

Mac Mini hasn't arrived yet, so I did some better testing with what's here.

I use 3 macs, with OS 10.6, 10.11 and 10.15, so each has different codecs available in quicktime. And of course it's different Moho versions:

Code: Select all

OS 10.6   AS 9, TVpaint
OS 10.11  AS 11
OS 10.15  Moho 13.5

FinalCut 10.3 runs on OS 10.11, so that's where all files land.

Created simple animations in TVPaint and AS/Moho, all on transparent, and rendered with Alpha. Tried all available combinations, the result in short is this:

The only mov. file which worked immediately (Alpha recognized in FinalCut) was from AS 11 on the same machine as FinalCut.
The only other working files were rendered with PNG codec, then converted in Quicktime on the 10.11 machine and saved as ProRes4444.

Anything else failed miserably, especially the Moho 13.5 ProRes files from 10.15. When I try to convert these, Quicktime saves them as h.264 - no Alpha there.

As a side note: I can't even play a movie with PNG codec on 10.15, but Moho 13.5 imports these and shows Alpha correcty. (Hope this is the same in 14 - right now I don't dare to install and test it! (It's for the new machine anyway. But I'm gnawing my teeth: will anything work at all on the Mac Mini?))

[NealF]

That's really not good.

As I mentioned, I'm on the new Mac Mini with all the latest Moho, FCP and OS.
I only got it to work if I exported image seq with png from Moho, imported to Motion, then saved as a ProRes 422 for importing into FCP.

So I was able to get the transparent background in Motion - which is what I needed it for. But geez, it really needs to work with all these programs.
I'm convinced it's the export of Moho that's bugged due to my not seeing the transparency when it's rendering the video.

[slowtiger]

No, I suspect Quicktime and this dreaded ProRes alpha ALAC as the culprit. Exporting with PNG alpha from 13.5 gives a file with readable Alpha, so it's not Moho's fault.

[slowtiger]

Update: I've installed the newest FinalCut on the new machine as well. No new codecs available (although I instaled an update with "additional professional formats").

Then tried if the new version has that bug fixed that it didn't remember the length I set for bulk imported images. Guess what: this option was removed completely. Instead of getting fixed.

Apple, I hate you.

The thing is I can export from FinalCut in ProRes 4444 with alpha and it works. Which means the codec is installed and available.

Moho, why can't I export in ProRes 4444 on Mac?

[NealF]

Very weird.

I find the export options in Moho Pro 12.5 much easier to understand. And they work as advertised.

[NealF]

Found out what's causing the problem.

On my new Mac Mini M2 when I export using Pro Res Alpha... on the Mac Mini it looks like there's no alpha. The background is solid black.
That's why I did all those extra steps above to make it work.

BUT!! I took one of those ProRes files into my old Mac Pro. And for some reason the background IS transparent!
Why it doesn't look that way on the Mac Mini is a mystery. But it doesn't seem as though it's a problem with Moho 14.

[Nicohk92]

I'm a mac user, so I don't really use AVI, but are we sure it's not AV1, that fairly recent open source codec I keep hearing about? That'd be interesting.

[NealF]

Nope.
Definitely using the ProRes (Alpha). It doesn't say 4444 like in the old version, but it looks like it is.

Don't know why it's not transparent on my new Mac. Weird.

[Nicohk92]

Make sure "Do not premultiply.." is ticked off in your export settings.

Also how do you check for transparency on your new mac? Best is to open an editing software and place the clip over a colored background for example.

[NealF]

I'll see what whether or not I had premultiply checked. Don't recall doing anything with that.

As far as how I see if it exported with alpha, I can tell as it's rendering. I can see some of the computer screen underneath the video I'm rendering.
And I also checked by playing the QT after rendering and the background was solid black.

But when I brought the same QT to my old Mac Pro running Mojave, it WAS transparent.