Bezier Curves, better drawing tools, better filling tools,..

yboy · Post by **yboy** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:36 pm

Hi!

I' m a new user of moho! The programm looks veeery cool on the first view!!! Better than flash I thought, on the first moment. But this belongs to pure animation.

on the 2nd step I discovered some simple things, I REALY miss, and what turned me dissapointed about moho:

especially the drawing tools are not satisfying me!

why isn't it possible to change lines by bezier-curves? Like in Freehand?

a simple polygon-tool is missing, like in freehand. The curve tool in moho isn't good to handle! Just rounded or flat, you can't change it like you want.

why can't I draw pure lines and put them together in the end? Like the pencil tool in flash? The lines in moho are always closed, if you are finished or not! The flash painting tools must be a reference! They are more intuitive and easier to handle!

the gradients are to simple! Just to colors are not enough! Flash or Freehand is better here too!

Filling tools like in flash! Much more intuitive and easier to handle!

adding sound to animations is not comfortable and not good explained in the tutorial!

ok ok... i don't want just to bad things abnout this in many aspects very interesstring programm, but just these facts above are facts, why I can't work good with moho. I have everything import as PNG, to have full controll about my artwork.

Oh, I forget to tell, that import of EPS or Illustrator files is dissapointing too. The files are not imported correctly.

Sorry, that I have so many critics...

bupaje · Post by **bupaje** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:51 pm

Hi and welcome to the forums. Some of your points have been asked before and a lot goes back to Lost Marble's intent for this as an animation tool rather than a tool that does everything and anything. The point has also been made before that he never intended it to be a replacement/direct competitor for Flash.

This post LM talks about the issue of beziers a little.
http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtop ... ght=bezier

The import issue is a problem I think most agree. I think a lot of this goes back to Moho's initial creation as an animtion tool, not a vector drawing tool. It make sense that as an animation tool you'd want images with as few points as possible to make it easier on the system. Illustrator creates huge numbers of points in my limited experience -fine for static images but rough on the system when they all have to be kept track of while moving. This is an area most have cried for improvement on though so I'm fairly sure it is on Lost Marble's list for continued improvement.

yboy · Post by **yboy** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:46 pm

bupaje wrote:... this as an animation tool rather than a tool that does everything and anything. The point has also been made before that he never intended it to be a replacement/direct competitor for Flash.
...
I think a lot of this goes back to Moho's initial creation as an animtion tool, not a vector drawing tool...

Of course! Moho should not be a Allround-Programm like Flash.
I understand your arguments, but I think, it is REALY important, when you can not import other vector-formats correct, like Flash-Drawings or Freehand/Illustrator-Graphics, you must have good and comfortable drawing tools in Moho itself, which give you all possibilities/ full control for a individual-drawing style!

I think it is not a good solution to import everything as PNG-files.

When I startet working with Moho, a few weeks ago, first I was totaly happy about the animation-possibilities. But then, I recognized, that I can't really draw like I want. Moho's tools do not give me enough freedom.
I mean to change manually the roundness/sharpness of curves for example.
Or to make comfortable shading areas in an Objekt. In Flash you draw something and fill it very easy, then you draw shapes in your Objekt and fill them with a darker color. In Moho it is much more long winded.

To combine seperate Audio files with Events seems also to be a problem.
You have just one big single soundtrack. In Flash you connect single sounds of your library very easy with events. For me this is much easier to animate, because I have a better feeling for the time events need.

Don' t missunderstout me. I don't want to talk such a ambitious program like Moho down. These aspects should be constructive critic.

(Sorry my english is perhaps not the best...)

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:06 pm

I would suggest that you try to get use to the drawing tools in Moho.

I found at first that I didn't like the drawing tools that much either... now... sometimes I wish Flash and Illustrator were more like Moho.

If you have used Flash a lot... or Adobe Illustrator or Freehand... you became familair with those tools. You got use to it. A few weeks of use is not enough time.

What I found with Moho is the same thing. Moho was different, but as I got use to the tools I found I was able to produce anything I wanted to with the same ease I have in other tools. Now I am as comfortable drawing in Moho as I am in AI or Flash. I know the tools... I know how the curves behave... I have a sort of... feel for where to put the points and make adjustments to get the smooth curves I want.

You need to give Moho a little more time. If you get as familiar with its drawing tools as with Flash you may find the percieved limitations aren't as bad as they first appear.

Personally I do not like the drawing tools in Flash. I have been using it on and off for years and just don't enjoy it as much as other programs. Just my preference I suppose.

It is like getting a new pair of shoes. They don't fit quite right at first... maybe they actually hurt your feet... eventually though... they feel great and they aren't "new shoes" any more.

-Vern

yboy · Post by **yboy** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:33 pm

@heyvern:

I hope that's true! It's true I'm perhaps a bit impatient, but in the moment I can't believe that I'm able to create figures and backgrounds like in Flash/Freehand. This discourage me with Moho.

If you want to have a look about a little film I made with Flash 5 this year, I think you will understand what I mean. (Espacially the gradients in the background objects or the shading areas in the characters.)
http://www.juergenfrey.de/filme.html
(it has engl. subtitles)

In the AUDIO-Aspect:
When I animated it, it helped me veeery much to link sounds and speech to actions/lipsync. With the direct hearing/implementation of the sounds it was easier for me to pre-estimate how long a animation movement or action has to be. Like editing for Sound Sync of noises you have to need an external editing-program. See below:

A nother point:
It seems it is not possible to have different scenes in one Moho-file, so you can edit/arrange them in the timeline like in flash.
seems you have to have an Editing-Programm like Premiere. And this is so very expensive, I can't buy it!

But I would have no problem with it, to pay more than 100 Dollars for Moho, when this features were in. In the moment I have not a real standoff with the program. Especially to use it for future job-projects.

Even when I saw projects in the gallery, which were very mindblowing!
(Don't missunderstand me - I will try to learn more about Moho, but in some aspects I'm a bit sceptic.)

Greetings!

Fazek · Post by **Fazek** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:39 am

When I was a beginner, I had also such problems. I made the replacement of some tools in the lua script language. It's a great possibility in Moho. Perhaps you can try them, see the scripts section. They are not simulating this or that, they represents my opinion about how the tools could work. (Sometimes the original works better, so I will continue the change).

Some of your requests are missing for me too. Some are wrong since it is possible to draw straight lines, polygons etc.

The program uses a special kind of curves, not bezier. If I could know the mathematics of these curves, I could make a tool to handle them.

yboy · Post by **yboy** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:26 am

In the moment I will not stop learning Moho, because I see the potential.

Do someone know unexpensive video-editing tools? To adding sound and cuting scenes together?

jahnocli · Post by **jahnocli** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:37 pm

Do someone know unexpensive video-editing tools? To adding sound and cuting scenes together?

Try searching before you ask -- there have been a few discussions about this recently...

olga · Post by **olga** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:00 am

yboy: i absolutely agree - no bezerier? wtf? is this supposed to be feature or what? during years i haven't found any vector editing tool able to use only corner or smooth point - so, of course moho can't import ai or eps files properly --- i really hope guys will do something about that, because moho is amazing animation tool... but useless for many people who are not able to import their files correctly (and it is nonsens to draw something in moho - will you draw again every logo your client sent you? just because moho's missing corner-smooth bezerier point? well, i don't think so) --- i hope this will be fixed soon, i would love to use moho instead of crappy crap software from macromedia-adobe

cribble · Post by **cribble** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:37 pm

See i think Moho has a way of going about beziers by using the curve tool. This makes it user friendly for new users just starting out in moho and vector drawing in general.

Although it may be pointless now to ask for a update considering MoHo is teaming up with what-cha-call-it to make a new software, they might considering putting this option into the new app they're going to create. So the Pro version could have the bezier curves, will the cut down version can use the same MoHo drawing tools.

slice11217 · Post by **slice11217** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:16 pm

cribble wrote:Although it may be pointless now to ask for a update considering MoHo is teaming up with what-cha-call-it to make a new software, they might considering putting this option into the new app they're going to create.

Please enlighten us on this 'teaming up with what-cha-call-it'. I hope this doesn't mean an end to the bliss of inexpensive animation tools.

thanks

cribble · Post by **cribble** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:40 pm

http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtop ... 57&start=0

Well, if you bothered to read the general discussion forums, you would notice that Lost marble is teaming up with E Frontier (Poser, manga studio) to make a new animation app which will have the same MoHo animation engine, but probably a few new and improved features.

There's going to be two versions, i think. A cut down, but never-the-less, still useable version (probably akin to what moho is like now) and and pro-all-inclusive, pop-a-big-boner-new-features, version.

In fact, why don;t you email LM himself to see if he will be including this in the new app?!

DarkCryst · Post by **DarkCryst** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:51 pm

Frankly... if Moho becomes more like the way Flash's tools are.. I would stop using it.

Flash is awful for animation.. it's really poor. However the Moho tools aren't intuitive, they are fine when you get used to them.. but that means they need improvement.