Storyboarding... How to?

[Genete]

Hi all!
There is a general question about animation that I'm thinking about. I putted it here because it is not a AS/Moho issue, more a problem of organisation.

Imagine that I have storyboarded an scene. More or less with drawings and notes I prepare differents camera positions, actions, stills, poses and so on with their respective written comments.

Example:

Imagine a character that is walking during 10 seconds, then it stops look upwards, and a bird that is flying avobe throw a shit to its head The character gets sad. That's all. Ok. My script cloud be like this:

a) General view of my character walking (travelling)
b) Change camera to watch the bird flying.
c) Camera focus into head of character while it stops and look upstairs.
d) Camera focus to bird that drop the shit.
e) Camera focus to the face of character showing the shit splashing on the head.
f) General view. Bird continue flying.
g) Close up to character getting sad.
h) end.

Forgive me for the example.

If I create the whole scene within only one file and everything lineal in timeline, then transitions between differents sections (a,b,c,.. etc.) done with the camera could result so stressed. It should need some slow transitions that are not according with real time that things are happening.

So, what can I do? prepare the whole story in one file and then render differents sections (a, b, c, ..) with overlaped timing, and after composite video with other application? or, create a separate file with ever section (a, b, c...) and then do finally the same external composition? (*)

Preparing the whole story in one file let me change a point of view if I want without much effort. But if I prepare separated files for every section I can arrange timing between different actions easier, because a time movement in one file does not affect to the other. Only coordination is needed during composition.

What do you think?

Thankyou in advance for listen a newbie in animation that want to learn.
Regards
Genete

(*) Remember that in linux there is not available upload video files into Moho.

[Rasheed]

a) General view of my character walking (travelling)
b) Change camera to watch the bird flying.
c) Camera focus into head of character while it stops and look upstairs.
d) Camera focus to bird that drop the shit.
e) Camera focus to the face of character showing the shit splashing on the head.
f) General view. Bird continue flying.
g) Close up to character getting sad.
h) end.

I think you are being too technical with your scripting (storyboarding). The best way to do it is trying to think you are in an elevator trying to convince a producer why you're script should be produced as a cartoon animation. Try to think what the audience thinks when they see the finished product. They don't think about camera's and focus (well, most don't).

A better way to write this script could be:

• a person walks in the street
• a bird flies over
• the bird squints his eyes and cries
• the person looks up into the sky to see what is happening
• the bird drops his shit
• the shit falls in the person's face
• the person gets mad and yells at the bird
• the bird grins and flies away

It is less technical, has somewhat more drama, is more logical, and can be told as a joke. I'm sure if you work on it, you can make it even more funnier. For instance, make it a well-dressed person, with a lot of status. People love it when rich people fall over a banana peel. However, if you replace the well-off guy by a poor guy, who already has had his share of bad luck, it is not so funny anymore. It is the contrast that makes it funny and what makes it a good story to tell.

If I create the whole scene within only one file and everything lineal in timeline, then transitions between differents sections (a,b,c,.. etc.) done with the camera could result so stressed. It should need some slow transitions that are not according with real time that things are happening.

Transitions are old-fashioned. The modern way of editing is a clean cut (no transition). Clean cuts enable you to tell a story in a faster pace (this, then that, and that...). In the olden days, audiences where used to stage performances, where there is no camera frame to tell the story. In those days stories where told at a slower rate, so transitions made sense.

I recommend to buy and read the excellent book on storytelling and screenwriting by David Howard and Edward Mabley:

The Tools of Screenwriting. A Writer's Guide to the Craft and Elements of a Screenplay

Also, there are some screenwriters present on this forum, perhaps they can help you to find resources to fine tune your storytelling skills.

[Genete]

I think you are being too technical with your scripting (storyboarding)

Sorry for the mess. I used scripting instead to storyboarding. The post was written when I was just going to bed...

Thankyou very much for all your comments. I'll take care of that or similar books about storyboarding to improve my style of tell the things with movies.

Regards.

[jahnocli]

Try Springboard for storyboards and animatics. It's shareware, you can try it out easily enough...

[slowtiger]

Transitions are old-fashioned. The modern way of editing is a clean cut (no transition).

This is utter bullshit. Transitions are part of the vocabulary of filmmaking today as well as 80 years ago. They just have a different meaning than a cut.

Timing a scene as drescribed can be done perfectly on paper. You should focus on "what do I want to tell" first, then "what reaction do I want to get from the audience". Everything else comes afterwards.

Do your storyboard on paper. Although there are several storyboard software solutions available, they are better suited to fine-tune a more or less finished storyboard. You don't have reached that stage yet. You still have to answer questions like "would it be funnier to show the whole thing in one shot without cut?" and the like. Play around with several versions of how to tell your story. Only after you are perfectly satisfied with the sequence of shots, you can start to time each movement and shot. It is possible to time scenes this way with the accuracy of a single frame, but this seems to be a matter of talent and experience.

[Rasheed]

Transitions are old-fashioned. The modern way of editing is a clean cut (no transition).

This is utter bullshit.

Thank you for giving me bovine excrement as a reaction.

Transitions are part of the vocabulary of filmmaking today as well as 80 years ago. They just have a different meaning than a cut.

True, but many of the transitions you see in old movies aren't used in modern movies, certainly not as frequent. I don't know about you, but I call that old-fashioned, meaning that they are out of fashion. Of course, like you wrote, they can still be used, just like Dutch can walk on wooden shoes. Only, not many do that anymore, because they are out of fashion. Wooden shoes, nevertheless, are excellent shoes. Analogously, transitions are good screenwriting techniques.

[Genete]

I did NOT want to create any conflict with the idea of use transitions. I think that I did not explained properly due to my problem with english and my lack in "film vocabulary".
The main problem to me after storyboard is done is this: Sometimes the actions happens simultaneuosly in time but different in position Imagine action A, and action B same time, both are related each other. If I take care of some detail with the camera for action A then I loose action B. So If I want to cover both actions in detail I have to rewind the timeline and render it two times one for action focusing in A and second in B. This is not a thecnical problem. The problems to me happens when I composite both in the movie. It seems to be not realistic to show both things one afeter the other if they accur simultaneously. So I am wondering what kind of filming trick can I use to do it as it have to be done.

The second thing is that every scene sould be saved in order to test it again. i think that I should save a version of same file for action A and other version for action B and then I can modify camera if I want...

..But it must have to be done AFTER the whole film is done!!. If not any change in timing or position will be done in ALL versioned files of the film.
So, how to check if storyboarding is well done if I have to create the whole film FIRST!!!??? It looks like a vicious circle...

Thanks for your patient.

Regards
Genete

@ Rasheed: I love transitions from act to act in Stars Wars films. But it is adifferent thing for me an act is composited by several secenes. Is that right?

[artfx]

It seems to me like you should shoot "coverage" like in a live action film. With Anime Studio that possibility opens up because of how it is done. You could do each scene in a separate file with as much overlap as needed and let the editing become as much a part of telling the story as the scripting.

[bupaje]

@Genete - For the two things happening at the same time maybe you need to tie the two together with a common element -like a clock showing the time- or perhaps the second scene can be visible from the first? Say action one is in a room and through the window you see something happening in a window across the street and can zoom to it. Also the comic book style split screen. Also maybe a background lightning storm or airplane or car moving down the street -you show it in one scene and then show it in the other to tie them together.

I did these two quick flash files to show one example.

http://www.stormvisions.com/moho/tran1.swf
http://www.stormvisions.com/moho/tran2.swf

Just random ideas, hope they help.

[slowtiger]

rasheed: You can't take this year's Hollywood output as a representative sample of filmmaking all over the world.

If shots are the sentences of a film, then the things between the shots like cut and transition are the punctuation. You wouldn't call a question mark old-fashioned just because many kids in web forums don't use it. If transitions were obsolete, they wouldn't have their own menu in video editing software. Fade-out, fade-in, cross-dissolve are essential tools of editing.

[heyvern]

What kind of transitions are we talking about?

Fade to black? Fade to white? Cross dissolve?

Or those funky weird annoying cliches in iMove like, page curl or venetian blinds etc? Those things... hurt my eyes! They just look stupid.

Fades are still used in modern film making and can also be a part of the story telling process. Remember those "old fashioned" screen wipes in all the Star Wars films?

In the movie "The Thing" by John Carpenter, another film classic, the director specifically used a fade to white in certain scenes to reflect the cold white environment of the setting.

I think the rule about transitions or cuts is to be careful and use restraint. If the transitions become too "visible" they don't work. In my mind clean cuts within a scene indicate that we haven't "left the room". A transition indicates a new setting or the passing of time.

If everyone always follows the "rules" nothing new ever gets created.

-vern

[Genete]

@Genete - For the two things happening at the same time maybe you need to tie the two together with a common element -like a clock showing the time- or perhaps the second scene can be visible from the first? Say action one is in a room and through the window you see something happening in a window across the street and can zoom to it. Also the comic book style split screen. Also maybe a background lightning storm or airplane or car moving down the street -you show it in one scene and then show it in the other to tie them together.

I did these two quick flash files to show one example.

http://www.stormvisions.com/moho/tran1.swf
http://www.stormvisions.com/moho/tran2.swf

Just random ideas, hope they help.

Thanks for your tips. But let me show an example that could help.

This is my first "long" animation. There is a moment in the action that camera focus on fighting between main character and "superman". Exactly in that moment a hole is opened in the floor. In my animation seems that both characters are stoped in the air meanwhile the hole is opening. I want to make close ups of both, fighting and hole opening... but ... How to do it credible?

here is the file.
http://media.putfile.com/La-cruz-magica

Regards

[DK]

Heyvern...I love John Carpenters "The Thing" What a great movie. The direction, music, etc holds up against anthing i've seen imho.

D.K

[Rhoel]

Transitions are still very much part of film-making and in m,any ways, are used more now than before. There are films where fade to black is used between each scene, to provide a series of character monent montages.

In fact, the introduction of NLE, combustion/after Effect/Harry type applications meant transitions have become very advanced and often seamless. And I'd be surprised if there is a modern film out there without transitions of one type or another. The fact you don't notice them is just an indication of how slick the techniques really are.

But their use has to be justified, part of the narrative process of telling the story. Used for effect only and your film will look like a second rate music video.

-----------------------------------------------

As for script/storyboarding, there are as many different approaches as there are directors.

But the rule of thumb is get the script right first. Only then worry about the storyboard - sometimes you have to go back an modify the shooting script to take account of storyboard changes (Sc 5 may become sc 5a & 5b).

And a good storyboard gives you a good film. A bad film only hinders. The more problems you can resolve at the storyboard stage, the better it is. This is especially imposrtant if there are a large team working on the project: If they can clearly see what is required, it saves time and money. It can also inspire the animators and others in the creative process.

The next crutial step used by most companies nowadays is to scan in the storyboard panels (and any other key-poses) into a edit suite to time the shots against the sound track (this may be the final recordings or a mock up read by stand-in actors - This stand-in sound track was done for Curse of the Were Rabbit). This technique can help a lot. It avoids unnecessary expensive over animating, helps with creating the overall pace and feel, and resolves line-crosses and other problems.

I use this animatic system and drop colour tests and completed shots into the animatic as I go along. This way, I have a good idea about continuity problems, things which can be changed/hook-ups that have to maintained.
It also helps you finish the film, you see the whole thing grow, take shape.

You may also find Excel or OpenOffice a great help: I built a spread sheet which lists the shots - using the SUM function, I can very accurately time a film. I read through each shot, acting it out, timing it with a spotwatch. Sicne I know how long my titles and credits are, and hoe long the final timing should be, I can very quickly bring a film onto length, before storyboard etc. It's a very valuable tool and now do it for all the films I make.

But you'll develop your own way of working as you go along, adding and removing things to each stage as you learn.

And try to make the film making process fun - it won't be all the time and sometimes you'll look at a project and really worry if anyone will like it/buy it. I'm at that stage right now with a new project - there is nothing like it one TV anywhere ... and that is a very great worry. But the guys who invented Simpsons, South Park and X-Files all went through the same ... You never know if you have a big hit or utter failure on your hands unless you try.

And the fun part about Hollywood and the film industry in general is no-one knows the formula for a hit film. If they did, no-one would make a turkey.

Rhoel

[Rasheed]

And the fun part about Hollywood and the film industry in general is no-one knows the formula for a hit film.

They at least know how to make a moderate movie, by insisting on the possibility of a sequel (to milk a possible hit). In action movies this means the hero cannot die, whatever happens. This almost always leads to a predictable end.

Furthermore, the dogma of, essentially, the three-act structure (begin - middle - end, or conflict - continuation - resolve) will lead to a predictable plot development. You know the lead character will be in a tight spot, tries everything to get out of that, fails, tries again, and succeeds. This "success formula" was established once, and why then deviate from it, experiment (with other people's money!) and try to do something new and exiting?

We hardly see anything new and exiting coming out of Hollywood, either in live-action or animation. I believe the reason is bad scripts and bad judgment by the filmmakers. Money and power truly corrupts creativity, at least in this case.

So don't mind what I have written earlier about fashion (although the claim is still valid IMO). Just be creative and use every film making device available, or invent a new one.