I am having a bit of trouble accomplishing this easily. I have my switch layers all set and ready to go, but I can see no way to distinguish between the voices/mouths, thus both people appear to say all of the lines. Is there a way to paint switch layer functionality within the timeline? the only method (which I am avoiding for now) that I can see is to edit the audio file into two files and split my animation and.... blah... it seems way too tedious and haphazard...I must be missing something simple...
Any advice or links to advice would be much appreciated. I have only been using moho for a week or so, so my ignorance is still ripe.
---Bodofinglok
...Lip Sync different mouths/voices (one soundtrack)?
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Bodofinglok
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Are you using Papagayo? (this is the free application for lip synching available on the Moho site).
This application creates "dat" files for each swicth layer used for lip synching.
Even if the dialogue "overlaps" you can create two separate "voice" dat tracks.
However if you are using the built in lip synch in Moho this is going to be almost impossible if the two voices overlap or "on top of each other".
This version of lip synch uses the difference in the volume of the sound.
Papagayo requires setting up the voices based on the words spoken which are typed in. So if you know what each voice is saying you can line up the keyframes in the switch layer to match that voice.
I hope this makes sense.
-Vern
This application creates "dat" files for each swicth layer used for lip synching.
Even if the dialogue "overlaps" you can create two separate "voice" dat tracks.
However if you are using the built in lip synch in Moho this is going to be almost impossible if the two voices overlap or "on top of each other".
This version of lip synch uses the difference in the volume of the sound.
Papagayo requires setting up the voices based on the words spoken which are typed in. So if you know what each voice is saying you can line up the keyframes in the switch layer to match that voice.
I hope this makes sense.
-Vern
Welcome to the Moho forums!
J
No. (Unless I'm missing something...)Is there a way to paint switch layer functionality within the timeline?
Yes. And then combine the files in something like After Effects.the only method (which I am avoiding for now) that I can see is to edit the audio file into two files and split my animation and.... blah...
No -- don't think so. Unfortunately.it seems way too tedious and haphazard...I must be missing something simple...
J
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
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Bodofinglok
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Hmm, this looks like it might solve my prob [2 characters having a dialog, but the final destination format for my toon is Flash]. Since all the voices will be in a single soundtrack, in the Anime Studio file, will Papagayo allow me to really sync the lips to external separate audio files, yet be sync'd to the 'real' soundtrack?heyvern wrote:Are you using Papagayo? ...
This application creates "dat" files for each swicth layer used for lip synching.
Even if the dialogue "overlaps" you can create two separate "voice" dat tracks.
...
Papagayo requires setting up the voices based on the words spoken which are typed in. So if you know what each voice is saying you can line up the keyframes in the switch layer to match that voice.
-Vern
Maybe I'm not explaining this well. Here's another way:
Character 1 speaks.
Character 2 answers.
The soundtrack file has both characters' voices.
How do I make sure that Character 2's toon mouth starts talking on cue, sync'd up with the soundtrack? Does Papagayo let me specify the frame on which a bit of speech starts?
I'm going to post a more general question about the best way to manage lip sync for 2 characters for Flash export, so if you think there's a better way than using Papagayo, I'm interested in that, too. I'll include a link to a JPG showing a typical frame from the toon. The subject line of that post will be "How to manage 2 lip sync characters in the same scene?" and I'll include the following number, to make it easily findable with Search: 0876-3535
A search for that number should turn up that post as well as this one.
Thanks,
--moonie
In Papagay you would create 2 "voices". They are separate DAT files that are based on the same audio file.
You would sync each "voice" one at a time to each part of the audio track they represent. You export both DAT files and load each into the appropriate switch in AS.
It is the same as doing ONE but you are doing TWO.
You could even just do one voice at a time using the same audio. the key is that the voices are in the same audio file or at least have the same timing.
Because both voices are in one audio file the "automatic" syncing in Papagayo is not going to be very good. The voices are "mixed" together and Papagayo won't know which is which (it's just a stupid program afterall
). You will have to tweak it quite a bit.
-vern
You would sync each "voice" one at a time to each part of the audio track they represent. You export both DAT files and load each into the appropriate switch in AS.
It is the same as doing ONE but you are doing TWO.
You could even just do one voice at a time using the same audio. the key is that the voices are in the same audio file or at least have the same timing.
Because both voices are in one audio file the "automatic" syncing in Papagayo is not going to be very good. The voices are "mixed" together and Papagayo won't know which is which (it's just a stupid program afterall
). You will have to tweak it quite a bit.-vern
Hey, Vern,
Thanks loads! I will give it a try using the method you suggest. I have complete control over the audio, so I could make a special soundtrack for each character, same length but with the other character's dialog muted. Do you think that would help Papagayo do a better job?
I haven' tried Papagayo yet, but I'm about to give it a whirl, so that might have been an obvious question...
Thanks loads! I will give it a try using the method you suggest. I have complete control over the audio, so I could make a special soundtrack for each character, same length but with the other character's dialog muted. Do you think that would help Papagayo do a better job?
I haven' tried Papagayo yet, but I'm about to give it a whirl, so that might have been an obvious question...
That would be PERFECT. If however it proves to be a lot of extra work you could just do that when voices overlap. If the dialog for each is distinct it could just be in one file. It is when two voices talk over top of each other that makes it harder.mooncaine wrote:I have complete control over the audio, so I could make a special soundtrack for each character, same length but with the other character's dialog muted. Do you think that would help Papagayo do a better job?
I would also have a mixed version for use in AS since AS only allows one sound track.
-vern
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HassleHead
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This is an old thread, but since people might read it to try to figure out this problem ... how difficult is it to let both characters get sync-ed with AS facility then delete the keyframes for the one who you don't want talking? How many two-shots do you have? This is the method I'm going to use for now because Papagayo has its own overhead with tweaking etc.
Take my advice with a grain of salt, because I'm quite new to this, but ... it worked great for my first test scene. I have dialog that I recorded myself, reading both characters' lines. I will make the final cartoon after I've recorded my voice actors. As with my self-made audio track, the final voice track will also have completely separated voices. They never speak at the same time; one voice is never "on top of" another.
Papagayo did fine, because it lets you put more than one voice track in the program at a time. I just had to move the words and phonemes, because Papa was confused and tried to make each character's dialog fit the whole soundtrack. Not a huge problem. I was disappointed that I couldn't paste text from my script into Papa, though. I had to type each character's lines in. The interface is spartan -- not many features, so it takes a long time to move short phonemes around or re-size them, but it performed quite well.
I used Papa to export two separate .dat files, one for each character. In ASP, I imported one of the Moho mouth sets, and that's on a Switch layer. I double-click the Switch layer, and there's a tab where I can import a .dat file. All that .dat file does is put down Switch keyframes for the mouths' Switch layer, so it's easy to move those keys or delete them: they are just one horizontal row of keys in your Timeline [probably true for AS, too?]. If you had both characters' keys in one .dat file, you'd just have to delete the appropriate keyframes for one character's mouth Switch layer, then do the same thing for the other character's mouth Switch layer.
Papagayo did fine, because it lets you put more than one voice track in the program at a time. I just had to move the words and phonemes, because Papa was confused and tried to make each character's dialog fit the whole soundtrack. Not a huge problem. I was disappointed that I couldn't paste text from my script into Papa, though. I had to type each character's lines in. The interface is spartan -- not many features, so it takes a long time to move short phonemes around or re-size them, but it performed quite well.
I used Papa to export two separate .dat files, one for each character. In ASP, I imported one of the Moho mouth sets, and that's on a Switch layer. I double-click the Switch layer, and there's a tab where I can import a .dat file. All that .dat file does is put down Switch keyframes for the mouths' Switch layer, so it's easy to move those keys or delete them: they are just one horizontal row of keys in your Timeline [probably true for AS, too?]. If you had both characters' keys in one .dat file, you'd just have to delete the appropriate keyframes for one character's mouth Switch layer, then do the same thing for the other character's mouth Switch layer.
Are you on a Mac?I was disappointed that I couldn't paste text from my script into Papa, though.
For some reason CMD+V works now... but I had this problem as well. Instead of "CMD + V" I believe I used CMD+SHIFT+V or it might have been option... can't remember. I honestly can't remember if this was a PC or a MAC issue. I just remember having to paste the text in a text editor, then I discovered the trick of using a different key combo.
I do know that the menu command for paste is always grayed out even if you have text in the clip board.
Pasting text DOES WORK. You just need the right key board combo.
I think it also might be due to which application you copy from. I just tested now which is why I was confused. I copied text from this FireFox text field and it pasted in Papagayo fine.
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Another trick if you have clean separate audio for two characters. "erase" the dialog for each character in two separate wav files. Then papagayo will be able to more accurately match the text to the audio.
Since both audio files are exactly the same in length and timing the original audio will match up.
-vern
There is another trick for the text in the Papagayo file if the key command thing doesn't work.
I kind of mentioned it but it wasn't clear.
The papagayo files are plain text. At the top is a spot where the text goes. I had originally opened up the file in a text editor and pasted it in. Then opened it in papagayo and my text was all there.
Just put in some temp text while in papagayo to see where to paste the real text in the text editor.
You probably won't need this trick. I'm sure the paste will work. Just thought I'd mention it.
-vern
I kind of mentioned it but it wasn't clear.
The papagayo files are plain text. At the top is a spot where the text goes. I had originally opened up the file in a text editor and pasted it in. Then opened it in papagayo and my text was all there.
Just put in some temp text while in papagayo to see where to paste the real text in the text editor.
You probably won't need this trick. I'm sure the paste will work. Just thought I'd mention it.
-vern
Vern, I love that idea. I'll experiment with that.
It reminds me that I hacked the .py scripts in Papagayo so that it would offer me one additional phoneme, a "Th" sound. I realize I probably don't need it for my current project, but I wanted to see if it were possible. It seems to be possible. I managed to get a "Th" phoneme to show up in the pop-up dialog box you get when you right-click a word on Papa's timeline, and it would put down a Switch keyframe labeled "Th". In Anime Studio Pro, I just copied the "L" mouth layer for now, renamed it "Th", and I think it worked, but I haven't really looked carefully yet. I figure I'll modify the "L" mouth I copied, if my trick does work, to look more like a "Th" shape.
It reminds me that I hacked the .py scripts in Papagayo so that it would offer me one additional phoneme, a "Th" sound. I realize I probably don't need it for my current project, but I wanted to see if it were possible. It seems to be possible. I managed to get a "Th" phoneme to show up in the pop-up dialog box you get when you right-click a word on Papa's timeline, and it would put down a Switch keyframe labeled "Th". In Anime Studio Pro, I just copied the "L" mouth layer for now, renamed it "Th", and I think it worked, but I haven't really looked carefully yet. I figure I'll modify the "L" mouth I copied, if my trick does work, to look more like a "Th" shape.