RACHA/FORTUNE SHORT - RENDER PROBLEM

CHIO · Post by **CHIO** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:06 pm

Hello to All!!!

I am always connected with this forum!!!!, but long ago that did not write or consulted something with You...

I have finished doing final render of a short one which soon I will share with you, named RACHA (in english FORTUNE), but have detected a problem that I hope to be able to solve with the aid of You.

Each scene has taken control of format 768x576, making render of each one exporting to format QUICK TIME codec SORENSON. The following image is to render partial of scene 1 where additionally I have including the drawing of the zones of security. They can observe a clear image and of which I am to taste like entertainer.

When I make the final composition with all the scenes of the short one and in the same line of time, using he himself format 768x576 and exporting to format QUICK TIME with codec SORENSON I obtain an image that I do not like, that it seems deformed (horizontally-please notice the size of the head is more wide) and little clear. To see image of window of the QUICK TIME PLAYER at that same moment of the line of time.

I Use for the edition software ADOBE PREMIERE PRO 2,0 that has a stability for my excellent PC and of which I am very to taste to work.

I will be thankful if somebody can indicate to me that I am making bad? or that would have to make to obtain to render clear like that I show at the outset.

I have hope that somebody of You in this wonderful forum can help me.

Thank you very much !!!

Carlos F. Bergoglio
CHIO ANIMATION
http://www.chio-animation.com.ar
cbergoglio@eling.com.ar

PS: as it advances I share to you another render of one of the scenes, clear obvious previous when final render that it is where I have the problema...

CHIO · Post by **CHIO** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:38 pm

Myles, Nolan Scott, bupaje, Rhoel, heyvern, & OTHERS:

Do you know if my problem can be related to this Link clarified by

LOST MARBLE in What output resolution to use?

http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1279

Thanks,

CHIO

Genete · Post by **Genete** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:59 pm

As far as I don't have video export in linux I cannot help you.
Did yoou tried to export as a image sequence and after composite them???

Regards
Genete

CHIO · Post by **CHIO** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:10 pm

Genete:

I never did this. I understand that to burn a DVD in image of high quality it is very good. I am going to test small to see if I obtain something.

But as sequence of images wich is your experience composing in a editing sofware? Is too complex to be moving hundreds and hundreds of images/frames?

Thanks, chio.

Genete · Post by **Genete** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:58 pm

I export them to a png sequence. It have the average size versus quality. Then with some of those tools (ffmpeg, mencoder, or png4yuv) I convert them to a quicktime or avi movie (command line tools). Then to add some audio just put them in a non linear video editor (cinelerra, lives, or jahshaka)
Every movie for me is a folder with (maybe) thousand of files inside.
I supouse that for windows or mac there will be tons of tools to do something similar.
That's all.
Best
Genete

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:02 pm

If your video etiting software (Premiere) is able to import a sequence of single images, rendering such a sequence is a good idea because each image will have best quality (if you use PNG or TIFF or PICT). The video editing software makes no difference in importing a video file or an image sequence, it's just the same work.

You shouldn't use the Sörensen codec for rendering if you still want to edit your video sequences. Rendering out of AnimeStudio should be done with the best possible quality, something like the Animation codec with highest quality setting - or as a sequence of seoarate images.

In Premiere, you assemble all your scenes, add sound etc. Then you export your film as one video file. I'd do it two times: one time in best uncompressed quality, to save it as my digital master. Second in broadcast quality, something like .H235 or similar, whatever is needed for the certain kind of distribution (internet, DVD, TV ...) I deal with.

Your example image looks like some problem with interlacing. I don't know Premiere well, but there should be a setting as to render a video progressive or interlaced. Try progressive: it should be better immediately.

CHIO · Post by **CHIO** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:41 pm

slowtiger wrote:If your video etiting software (Premiere) is able to import a sequence of single images, rendering such a sequence is a good idea because each image will have best quality (if you use PNG or TIFF or PICT). The video editing software makes no difference in importing a video file or an image sequence, it's just the same work.

I understand that, I will test some using individual images png.

slowtiger wrote: You shouldn't use the Sörensen codec for rendering if you still want to edit your video sequences. Rendering out of AnimeStudio should be done with the best possible quality, something like the Animation codec with highest quality setting - or as a sequence of seoarate images. In Premiere, you assemble all your scenes, add sound etc. Then you export your film as one video file. I'd do it two times: one time in best uncompressed quality, to save it as my digital master. Second in broadcast quality, something like .H235 or similar, whatever is needed for the certain kind of distribution (internet, DVD, TV ...) I deal with.

Yes I understand this, but without compression the archives with render from AS are very great and produces crash during the edition. I do not have a super PC but my machine is quite powerful

slowtiger wrote: Your example image looks like some problem with interlacing. I don't know Premiere well, but there should be a setting as to render a video progressive or interlaced. Try progressive: it should be better immediately.

I will try this option in ADOBE, I believe that it exists.

Thanks,

CHIO

Genete · Post by **Genete** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:22 am

By the way. Your drawings look like Quino's style. I love Quino stories.
Please post some animation examples.

Post by **Víctor Paredes** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:20 am

Genete wrote:By the way. Your drawings look like Quino's style. I love Quino stories.

me too!

ulrik · Post by **ulrik** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:20 am

I also like your drawings very much, clean and direct, it would be nice to see some animation.

CHIO · Post by **CHIO** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:20 pm

ulrik / selgin:

Yes!!!!!! It is certain. I am a fervent admirer of QUINO. Their humor and drawings are excellent. I have been inspired by the QUINO style to make the characters of this short. I hope to be able to solve the problems of render that I must to send the finished short to you; on the other hand at this moment is being made up a special music and effects for all the short one that already are published.

Here an advance of a trimmed scene:
320x240 0,21 MB

http://www.chio-animation.com.ar/racha/ ... artial.mov

Ulrik:

Thanks, I have tried this for this short.

Best regards,

Chio

CHIO · Post by **CHIO** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:26 pm

RACHA/FORTUNE CHARACTERS

Please, if you can help me with the render problem I apreciate so much...

For my the problem is also the deformation of the image in horizontal direction.

Regards,

Carlos.

Rhoel · Post by **Rhoel** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:09 pm

One thought here is the horizontal deformation is being caused by the video editor taking the square pixels and converting it to 1.333 (the 4:3 pixel ratio). You are rendering the scene at the old frame size 768x576, square pixels. If the video editor is working to D1, then it will do strange things to the horizontal line, like convert the square pixels to 1.333. This would give you the identical effect you are seeing here.

Try setting the video editor/converter codec to square pixels - this might make the problem go away. The distortion is not severe enough to make me think this is a 4:3 image being pulled into widescreen.

What is troubling me is if you look really carefully, some single horizontal lines are being doubled, as if the interlace was inverted (eg: playing DV format in D1, even field first instead of odd field). This effect cannot cannot be explained by the pixel ratio being out. The trouble is the output of AS is non-interlaced ... it should make no difference if the video format is reading odd or even fields. So why is there a clear 1 pixel gap on some lines - could that be anti-aliasing, even when the lines look nearly horizontal??? Its a puzzle.

So let's fix one problem at a time: Check the pixel setting first - it should be square and not PAL. With luck, all the problems will go away. If it doesn't, then we can worry about any secondary problems later.

I concur with the other posters here, rendering a png sequence then converting that to a video stream gives better results. I use Combustion and I have heaps of control over what I can do, from layer blurring, to multi layer compositing etc.

Have fun testing the settings.

Rhoel

CHIO · Post by **CHIO** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:34 am

Thank you very much Rhoel by the aid that you have given me!!!!!!!
I am proving your advice at this moment to see if I solve the problem. Soon I comment the results to you and the other people.

Best regards,

Carlos.

CHIO · Post by **CHIO** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:53 pm

Yeeesssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, I could solve part of the problem

!

I talk about the horizontal deformation, that I eliminated it making Aspect Pixel Ratio equal 1.0. Even so it did not convince the result to me, that I improved very many with the option Progressive Scan & Desinterlace Video Footage (OFF)…

Now, I am going to try to improve still more with the option of render to a sequence of images since all have proposed me…

Again Thank you very much Rhoel & other people…

Carlos Bergoglio
CHIO ANIMATION
www.chio-animation.com.ar