Drowtales 2007 anniversary animation - segment done

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Touched
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Post by Touched »

slice11217 wrote:your action palette must be packed with layers like, "head 3/4", "head profile", "mouth front", "mouth 3/4", "mouth profile", etc.
Yes, it sure is! That's why I made a feature request on the forum for folders for the Actions palette, to organise them better.
slice11217 wrote:Does it also mean that if you do an action for a 3/4 head that you then have to go to the mouth layer and plug in the 3/4 mouth and then 3/4 eyebrow, etc., or can you set it up so that the action spans multiple layers?
The latter. That's the beauty of it. If you created your action on the root layer, it spans all of the child layers, or at least any of them that have keyframes set on them. So you can pick and choose within the action any of the layers to affect, and also if you so choose, you can use an action that normally spans multiple layers, but apply it only to one of those child layers (for instance a mouth). If your eyes, eyebrows, and mouth are on separate layers, you could create a library of expressions, and mix and match the components (apply "surprise" action to the eyebrow layer, "anger" action to mouth, etc.) I haven't gone to such a length myself, but it's something that can be done.
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Post by slice11217 »

That's so cool! I'll probably be playing with this idea this weekend because I've got a gig where there's some conversation going on.

This forum ROCKS!!
Genete
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Post by Genete »

Touched wrote:Here's another substantial update. Ariel's done, and Faen's close to halfway done. Fortunately, she's more gentle and shy and doesn't need to move as much. While working on her I tried out that command that Keisern brought to my attention which I had totally overlooked -- Copy Keyframe. Perhaps because it was in the Animation menu, and I expect to find "copy" commands in the Edit menu. Anyway, it worked very well, though unless I chose "entire document" it would only copy the keyframes of the current layer, and so I end up with a bunch of channels I don't use much getting keyed too, but for that same reason I only had to delete them from the visibility channel.

So that command takes some of the burden off of the Actions which we were discussing before, though it's still more convenient to store certain things in Actions, especially if I want to use them in a separate document.

http://drowtales.com/~whiteradish/temp/ariel&faen2.avi
I supouse I have't to repeat what a fan of your style I am. But I have a comment. I know (for your request in this forum) that you are a demanding man with your work results. Don't you think that there is some ... strange in the way Ariel is looking to Faen and viceversa? I feel that her eyes (pupils and iris) are not properly directed to a 3/4 head position. It is only my feeling.

Very interesting thing the use of actions. They are useful at eny level.

Regards
Genete
Last edited by Genete on Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Genete
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Post by Genete »

Touched wrote:Here's another substantial update. Ariel's done, and Faen's close to halfway done. Fortunately, she's more gentle and shy and doesn't need to move as much. While working on her I tried out that command that Keisern brought to my attention which I had totally overlooked -- Copy Keyframe. Perhaps because it was in the Animation menu, and I expect to find "copy" commands in the Edit menu. Anyway, it worked very well, though unless I chose "entire document" it would only copy the keyframes of the current layer, and so I end up with a bunch of channels I don't use much getting keyed too, but for that same reason I only had to delete them from the visibility channel.

So that command takes some of the burden off of the Actions which we were discussing before, though it's still more convenient to store certain things in Actions, especially if I want to use them in a separate document.

http://drowtales.com/~whiteradish/temp/ariel&faen2.avi
I supouse I have't to repeat what a fan of your style I am. But I have a comment. I know (for your request in this forum) that you are a demanding man with your work results. Don't you think that there is some ... strange in the way Ariel is looking to Faen and viceversa? I feel that her eyes (pupils and iris) are not properly directed to a 3/4 head position. It is only my feeling.

Very interesting thing the use of actions. They are useful at eny level.

Regards
Genete


:oops: Ooops I posted it twice...
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Touched
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Post by Touched »

No, you're right about the eyes. I was using "stage looking" -- probably not the right term, but it's been a long time since I acted in theatre. But it's a kind of cheating in theatre to have the characters looking at empty space facing more toward the camera, in order to show more of their faces. Is that what you were talking about? Maybe I shouldn't have used it. I'll avoid using it in my next bit. :-) If it weren't needed for the actual anniversary date, I'd consider amending it.

Or, it could be a symptom of the fact that I animated the characters separately, usually blind, but in 2 spots I imported a still image of Ariel for reference. I had a lot of problems getting this rendered out as long as it was and had to break it into smaller pieces, and having both characters in there I think would have been a disaster. I kept running into places where the master/control bone script would suddenly stop working during the rendering, either freezing or making the body reset to arms-out position, or another part where when I tried rendering it from frame 600 the script never activated in the first place. I ended up "fixing" it by rendering a few frames manually (Ctrl-R), saving those, and rendering starting from past the problem area.

Also, there are a few strange glitches in the eyes sometimes, where it shows the pupil underneath through a crack, and I have no idea why. There is no seam where it appears in the render, I can see all the points on the screen, and all's fine, but it appears only in the render.

Oh, and I want to admit that I'm not happy at all with the pointless arm gestures I had Ariel do near the end. :oops:

Anyway, here's the rest of it. Thanx for the comments and suggestions!
http://revver.com/watch/231256
(Fullscreen mode recommended)
Last edited by Touched on Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Genete
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Post by Genete »

May be the stage looking. I understood that they are looking each other when the one is talking and not looking to a died place. If it is a propoused method is is ok with me. It was only a comment. Don't worry so much.

Regarding to the strange glitches are you refering to the vibration that happens to Faen when the sparkles appears behind her? I did not notice nothing remarckable with thier eyes. If you tell me the second where it happens ...

Also I like a lot the differnt colors of Faen's eyes. So cool.

Genete
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Post by Touched »

No, not Faen's vibrating eyes, but an actual crack in the face. It happens to Ariel at :23 in, where she's saying "a whole bunch", on the frame where she's almost the lowest before popping up, with her eyes closed. When it happens, which is rarely, it's when the characters eyes are closed. You can also see a small white crack in Ariel's face on her final pose which holds until the end. The video compression helps a little in hiding these errors.

I can't take credit for the eye colours, since these are existing webcomic characters, though they're slightly modified to my art style. :-)
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Post by Genete »

Image

Ocuh!! It hurts!!!

If you don't comment it I couldn't see it. It seems some similar problem than the one of the hair. Some high contrast between the white of the eyes and the face's color of a hidden shape. I supouse the eyes white still bein behind. You can correct it jsut making a quiack change of tone to Ariel's white of the eyes during the eye blink and back again to the original tone when open.

That's annoying but I think you can solve it.

Best
Genete

EDITED:
In those sample files there are two shapes sharing same points. If the one behind have gradient in its outline it produces aliasing in the edge of the first shape.
See the original, the original and a gradient filled outline behind and the behind shape alone. All same points and line witdth.

http://amanoalzada.iespana.es/Mohostuff/original.png
http://amanoalzada.iespana.es/Mohostuff ... -weird.png
http://amanoalzada.iespana.es/Mohostuff ... behind.png
The problem in the original-weird dissapears if you remove the gradient from the behind shape.
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Post by Touched »

That's a possible solution -- thank you Genete! It's complicated somewhat because the purple pupil is also visible through it, and there are a lot of shapes in the pupil to change. I could instead use a flesh-coloured circle over the pupil and keep it invisible except in cases where that happens, or I could correct it outside of AS by rendering it as a PNG sequence and fix those frames in Photoshop before importing them to Premiere.

The way I'm handling this project is to composite all the characters together with the background and the audio tracks in Premiere, and render it out to AVI from there, so that's equally doable and might be better in cases where I've already exported the animation from AS.

Of course I expect none of this would have been a problem at all if I'd used masking for the eyes and mouth, but when I started on this project I was hoping to be able to export it to SWF ultimately.

EDIT: I didn't see your edit until just now. But I don't understand what your examples are showing. :( I don't have any gradients in my shapes.
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Post by byanfu »

I have been following this thread and just wanted to say fantastic work Touched. Extremely professional.
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Post by Touched »

Thank you, and now I'm immediately on to a more interesting-looking one with staging and backgrounds!
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Post by DarthFurby »

I'm with byanfu. Really great broadcast worthy stuff.
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Post by Genete »

Touched wrote:That's a possible solution -- thank you Genete! It's complicated somewhat because the purple pupil is also visible through it, and there are a lot of shapes in the pupil to change. I could instead use a flesh-coloured circle over the pupil and keep it invisible except in cases where that happens, or I could correct it outside of AS by rendering it as a PNG sequence and fix those frames in Photoshop before importing them to Premiere.

The way I'm handling this project is to composite all the characters together with the background and the audio tracks in Premiere, and render it out to AVI from there, so that's equally doable and might be better in cases where I've already exported the animation from AS.

Of course I expect none of this would have been a problem at all if I'd used masking for the eyes and mouth, but when I started on this project I was hoping to be able to export it to SWF ultimately.

EDIT: I didn't see your edit until just now. But I don't understand what your examples are showing. :( I don't have any gradients in my shapes.


What I wanted to show you were some shading effects from the shape behind that is shown in around the shape in front althoug the front and behind shapes have exactly same size (so it is supoused that the shape bshind should be completely hidden.

BTW, Did you see same effect to Faen like the Ariel's one? It happen at second 29,5 frame number 886...

Image

It really hurts my eyes!! (and her eyes also!!). Sorry if you did not realize about it. Now you can correct it too.

Waiting for an update.
Best Genete
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Post by Touched »

That one's even worse. I'll definitely fix these for the final post, which we can now expect will go online Monday.

Did you say you want an update? Here's a new segment, in a new thread. ^_^
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Post by slice11217 »

You know, I just did a project the weekend before last where I used single frame actions to do lipsync, based on your assertions about its usefulness. There was something that I learned that may help you with your eye problem here: it seems that in the action itself, every shape has to be keyed individually in order to avoid or reduce erroneous frames where a element that's at the bottom of the layer order shows up randomly. At least it seemed to help.

Also, I noticed that when you keyed the action, if you really odd shape popped up instead of the action frame that you expected, it helped to first key in the 'master' action shape and THEN key in the shape that you wanted.

I hope that's not too confusing.
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