Another masking issue

[AngryMonster]

Hi
(I am new to AS...so be gentle)

I am having some Masking issues.
Could someone please have a look at my project file or the below image and point me in the right direction.

here are the problem areas:

- the mouth....when I mask the mouth ...the mouth disappears...cant see the outline.

- the neck...how to I get it into the body.

- the hand/glove...same as the neck.

Also (maybe this is another topic) ...What is the best way to do tones on a character?...Do I put the tones on the actual individual shape?

thanks heaps!

Project file

[heyvern]

Yeehaaa!

Masking. I LOVE masking. It can be tricky.

For the mouth what you want to do is put the "mouth line" onto a new layer above everything. Set the mouth line layers masking property to "do not mask this layer". The lines of the lips will be on a layer over everything else. The problem is that strokes are included in the mask. You can't stroke a mask shape/layer and have those lines remain visible.

You could also simplify the set up and have the lips or mouth line stroke so it is "inside" the mouth mask. Make the stroke thicker so it shows up inside the mask. This has problems as well. I usually put the stroke on a layer that isn't masked.
-------------------------------

... and sometimes... you don't even need masking at all... for instance:

See that sketch you drew of the neck area?

Look at it carefully. You have the neck area that needs to cover the back of the collar but also be behind the front of the tunic or jacket.

The simplest way to do this in my humble opinion would be to have all those "shapes" on one layer... the jacket/collar shape would be "connected" but the shapes in different orders.

The back collar "shape" would be lowest, then the neck then the front of the jacket.

The back part of the tunic and the front part can actually be connected together... part of the same mesh. The beauty part is that the filled shapes themselves can be in different orders.



(.moho file... same as an .anme file.)
http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/shape_layers.zip

-vern

[myles]

Another possible trick for the mouth outline - use the layer properties for your mouth group layer, turn shadows on, set an opaque black (or other colour) shadow with 0 offset, 0 blur, and whatever expansion you want as the outline thickness.

Not as good as a separate mouth line layer as Vern suggests (you will particularly see problems with thick "shadow outlines"), but still a possibility.

Regards, Myles.

[AngryMonster]

Good one guys!

The back collar "shape" would be lowest, then the neck then the front of the jacket.

The back part of the tunic and the front part can actually be connected together... part of the same mesh. The beauty part is that the filled shapes themselves can be in different orders.

nice and simple....maybe I am getting too complicated with my layers?


Thanks again Myles and heyvern!

[heyvern]

nice and simple....maybe I am getting too complicated with my layers?

I don't know... I have some wickedly complex layers myself.

What I have discovered over time is how to simplify my layers. I use to like putting all the shapes on their own layer (almost all the shapes).

This is fine if you use bones for animating which is all I use. I only animate with bones so having hideously complex layers is not a problem for me at all. Since the bones control ALL the points on all the layers I don't have to worry about them... they just move the same if they were on just one layer.

However if you do a lot of point motion in your animation having a lot of layers can be a chore... switching back and forth to animate each layer is a pain in the butt. In that case it makes sense to keep layers to a minimum and use layering of shapes on one layer instead of separate layers.

Another benefit of less layers and connecting shapes like the collar and shirt, is that there are fewer points to worry about. If the collar was a layer and the top of the shirt was a layer... the part where they "join" or should be connected would be harder to keep lined up.

Also with multiple layers you end up having redundant points. You have to duplicate some points on each layer so they all move the same way and stay lined up.

Lately I have started combining my meshes on one layer so that two or more shapes can share the same mesh points. Fewer points to worry about.

-vern

[AngryMonster]

hi

Yeah...I think I will head that way...try to combine a few shapes.

I am am actually finding it hard to make that 'change shape order' thing to work.

Your file makes sense...and I noticed that when you click on the shapes...in the style window the name of you styles come up...1, 2 or 3.

But in my file the names of the shape styles dont come up...obviously I have done some thing wrong...???...any ideas?

Thanks

[heyvern]

In the preferences there is a check box for "Auto naming of bones and shapes"...

I strongly recommend turning this ON!

Even if you think you don't need it or you don't know right now what it's good for... someday... in the future... if you haven't been naming your bones and shapes... you will wish you had.

That is when I checked that box in the preferences and have never turned it off. I had a file with a bazillion bones and bunches of shapes and without any names I had a very hard time selecting them... it was agony. I couldn't tell which shape was where in the layer.

You can also name shapes after the fact by selecting the shape with the Select Shape tool and in the styles palette there is a box for that shapes name. Just type in a name and now that shape can be selected by dragging down the menu (you have to deselect a shape before it's name will show in the menu. Same if you rename a shape. Just type the name and hit return and it deselects the shape.)

The beauty of auto naming is that you don't have to worry about it as you go along. The naming is pretty basic, it's just a number but at least you can select a shape and SEE on the layer which shape it is and rename it if you need to.

I often do that at the end of creating a file. I will select those named shapes and give them a name that makes sense. If none of the shapes had names I might miss some. If you had 50 shapes with no names (and you don't even know you have 50 shapes), and tried to click on each one to name it, you might get 47 of them. Maybe there were 2 or 3 so far under all the others you couldn't even tell if you selected them... or be able to select them easily.

AUTO NAME SHAPES AND BONES! It doesn't hurt and it can really help.

-vern

[AngryMonster]

great!

[slowtiger]

For mouth outlines I used the simple trick of animating the mouth as necessary, then duplicated the mouth's outline layer, put it on top and out of the masking. If I have to edit the animation, I delete that outline and duplicate from the original layer again. Not elegant, but it works.

[Touched]

There is also a script that will copy the point movement from one layer and apply it to another layer (assuming it has the same points.) That might be easier. I haven't tried it myself yet. I wanted to mask the mouth in my last animation, but I couldn't figure out a decent solution in the time available so I just crushed the teeth, tongue, etc into the mouth outlines to hide them when I needed to.

[heyvern]

I've used that script you mention and it works well. It does exactly that, copies the point motion perfectly from one layer to another as long as they are identical. Identical in every way including the order that the points were created so layer duplication is the best bet... but only once.

-vern

[AngryMonster]

yeah...that works for me...thanks for help