As some of you may have seen in the General AS topic, I'm working on putting together four OAV episodes based on the Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou manga. These are all chapters that have not been animated before. I have put together the translated scripts, have the storyboards, am reviewing auditions for the voice actors, as well as working with a couple folks on the musical score.
What I'm missing is an animator. Yes, I bought AS Pro with the idea that I could do the work if push comes to shove. But I'm a total newbie, and lets face it, I'm not going to be as fast as y'all are likely to be. So figure there might be someone out there who would like to help with this effort. None of us are getting paid, and so I know that might not make this very attractive - even though you'll get prominent credit.
Even if all you can do is help with setting up the "sets" and some character or background design, that certainly would help. Of course it would be ideal if I could give you the script/storyboard, and voice files, and then get back the lip-synced and animated file to add the music and titles to.
Worst case, I'll slog my way through myself, but that will take a while. Why deprive the world of something special just because I'm slow? I'd ideally like to have the first ~22 minute episode out some time early in May, to give you and idea of what I'm looking at.
If you can help, an email to ewan.grantham@gmail.com or a PM here would be appreciated.
Credit, but no pay - Animator needed for Fan-Created Anime
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
Re: Credit, but no pay - Animator needed for Fan-Created Ani
That will never happen.EwanG wrote:I'd ideally like to have the first ~22 minute episode out some time early in May, to give you and idea of what I'm looking at.
You would need a team of skilled experienced animators working full time to pull that off... and you would have to pay them... a lot of money. 22 minutes is a lot of animation.
Also consider post production. Let's say you get volunteers to do the animation. How long will that take? How about render time? Then you have to edit it, lay down the music.
I would suggest scaling this down. Don't do an entire episode. Just do a trailer. 30 or 60 seconds maybe 2 minutes. You might be able to get that done by may. If this is a for fun volunteer project don't make your deadline unrealistic. Sometimes a trailer is more fun anyway. You can make it look like a huge big production with out a ton of animation.
-vern
It may be worth checking out Makoto Shinkai's work. He did a 25 minute OAV "Voices of a Distant Star" on his own and recently finished "5 Centimeters per Second" (although I'm sure that was a studio project).
If you look at his work, you'll notice he relies a lot on film-language, editing, camera angles, atmospheric backgrounds... and very little animation. That style would suit Yokohama Kaidashi Kikō very well.
Start off by making a storyboard, turn it into an animatic. Do some background art. Once you've got that, try to entice some volunteers to do bits of animation. Having an animatic will show them your intentions and also the fact that you're serious about this project.
Don't feel that it has to be done in AS Pro, some types of animation are easier to do in Flash. First worry about the structure of the film in the form of an animatic.
Feel free to ask more questions
If you look at his work, you'll notice he relies a lot on film-language, editing, camera angles, atmospheric backgrounds... and very little animation. That style would suit Yokohama Kaidashi Kikō very well.
Start off by making a storyboard, turn it into an animatic. Do some background art. Once you've got that, try to entice some volunteers to do bits of animation. Having an animatic will show them your intentions and also the fact that you're serious about this project.
Don't feel that it has to be done in AS Pro, some types of animation are easier to do in Flash. First worry about the structure of the film in the form of an animatic.
Feel free to ask more questions
A word about time scheduling:
If you want to animate a piece of manga, first break that down into a storyboard. You will see that your number of storyboard drawings will be not much less than the number of panels of the comic. Now estimate how long you will need to draw all these storyboard pieces in the same quality as the comic - this is the absolute minimum time you'll need to do an animated version, no matter how many corners you try to cut.
If you want to animate a piece of manga, first break that down into a storyboard. You will see that your number of storyboard drawings will be not much less than the number of panels of the comic. Now estimate how long you will need to draw all these storyboard pieces in the same quality as the comic - this is the absolute minimum time you'll need to do an animated version, no matter how many corners you try to cut.
The biggest problem is creating all your pieces. I'm no Manga expert, but I'm guessing the detailed artwork will take far longer than a simpler style like that kind of stuff I do (think "Family Guy").
Even with that simpler style it took me three or four weeks to create all my artwork for a series (11 characters, about 15 backgrounds). However, once I did that I was able to do a 22 minute episode in a couple of weeks (so that's where I might disagree with Vern -- but once again, I don't know the Anime style of cartooning very well).
All the other advice given here is sound -- break down your work, decide what you need in the way of sets and characters, and create a smart, short "test" animation just to see what you're talking about. (This was how I decided it was feasible to do my series -- I did those shorts I sent you the links to in order to see how long it would take me. All of those, including characters and backgrounds, were done in two weeks). And consider the shortcuts used by most animations -- even Disney (if you look at the old Disney stuff they nearly always started off the movie with a hold on a single frame while they did their exposition. You can use this trick along with many others to cut down dramatically on the amount of actual animation you need to produce).
I wouldn't be discouraged by the project, only by the timeline. If this is a labor of love don't even worry how long it will take. If the first one takes three months, the next will take two months and the last one may well be done in a month. Or factor all those by two or three, but the point is you'll get there and as you do it yourself you'll get better and more confident in what you're doing. Even if you were able to farm it out you'd miss out on the joy of learning how to use this software and after you learn you'll be able to do anything you want.
(And make sure you keep asking the experts here for help on individual problems -- they will get you over the hurdle).
Even with that simpler style it took me three or four weeks to create all my artwork for a series (11 characters, about 15 backgrounds). However, once I did that I was able to do a 22 minute episode in a couple of weeks (so that's where I might disagree with Vern -- but once again, I don't know the Anime style of cartooning very well).
All the other advice given here is sound -- break down your work, decide what you need in the way of sets and characters, and create a smart, short "test" animation just to see what you're talking about. (This was how I decided it was feasible to do my series -- I did those shorts I sent you the links to in order to see how long it would take me. All of those, including characters and backgrounds, were done in two weeks). And consider the shortcuts used by most animations -- even Disney (if you look at the old Disney stuff they nearly always started off the movie with a hold on a single frame while they did their exposition. You can use this trick along with many others to cut down dramatically on the amount of actual animation you need to produce).
I wouldn't be discouraged by the project, only by the timeline. If this is a labor of love don't even worry how long it will take. If the first one takes three months, the next will take two months and the last one may well be done in a month. Or factor all those by two or three, but the point is you'll get there and as you do it yourself you'll get better and more confident in what you're doing. Even if you were able to farm it out you'd miss out on the joy of learning how to use this software and after you learn you'll be able to do anything you want.
(And make sure you keep asking the experts here for help on individual problems -- they will get you over the hurdle).
Definitely a copyright issue. If this is based on published work and not an original "fan" type thing it would be a copyright violation. For all you know someone might be producing these chapters of the manga as we speak.
I've never been a "fan" of fan work myself. I never understood why someone would spend all that time on something you could never actually "own" or sell. Why not spend that same effort on something original? There are a lot of public domain books and stories out there.
I am however a fan of spoof and satire. Different category in my opinion.
-vern
I've never been a "fan" of fan work myself. I never understood why someone would spend all that time on something you could never actually "own" or sell. Why not spend that same effort on something original? There are a lot of public domain books and stories out there.
I am however a fan of spoof and satire. Different category in my opinion.
-vern
Some things just spout lots of fan fiction. Star Wars springs to mind. George Lucas actually likes some of the fan made Star Wars films. As long as it is a non-profit project, most creators are actually quite happy for people to do such things. It is after all a sign of genuine affection.dueyftw wrote:deja vu? Is this the monthly work your but off for free? My first BIG question is do you have the rights to Manga? Where is the finished work going to be showed? Film festivals or Youtube?
Dale
I myself have worked on commercial projects that have spouted fan-made YouTube animations. We saw them and thought they were funny. No harm done. Certainly not a "copyright issue" in our minds.
Ah, I see what you mean. The fact that it is an existing story. I guess that changes it a bit. Hadn't thought of that.
Even so, from this thread, I was under the impression that it was a fan work. If it's not, then I'll have to get a bit more scornful. I'm rather good at that.
Even so, from this thread, I was under the impression that it was a fan work. If it's not, then I'll have to get a bit more scornful. I'm rather good at that.
OK, I can now see why I was hesitant to go down this path in the first place, but I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask. Silly me 
From a copyright issue - Manga has a long history of dojinshi, and in fact the author of this series is highly suspected of having contributed to a few of the ones about this series himself. The general rule of thumb, which I am following, is that it can't be for profit. It's the same arrangement that Paramount has with the Star Trek fan series (which I note has an episode up for a Nebula).
As I mentioned in the original post, I actually have done the storyboard for this, created a text script (for use with the Papagayo software and for the voice actors), etc. I am not asking anyone to do this from whole cloth while I sit back and just watch others work. I originally wasn't even going to ask for animation help because, as someone else mentioned, I considered this a labor of love.
However, I thought if there WAS someone (or ones) with some experience who might be interested in lending a hand, then I'd feel silly later on about adding a couple extra months to the overall effort because I was insisting on doing it myself.
For my visual novel (Senior Year, available for free at www.bklovr.com), I ended up doing the character art (and script, and some of the music, and all of the programming) while taking advantage of some free with attribution backgrounds. By doing so I knocked at least a month and possibly two off the timeline.
I apologize if I offended anyone by posting my request here. I tried to make it very clear that I wasn't offering a paid job so that no one who was looking for paid work would have to be distracted by this.
May I respectfully suggest, that either the moderator remove this thread if it is really going to cause a great deal of dissension, or that it be locked and then anyone who is interested can still PM or email me without my having to bother the other readers of this forum.
FWIW,
Ewan
From a copyright issue - Manga has a long history of dojinshi, and in fact the author of this series is highly suspected of having contributed to a few of the ones about this series himself. The general rule of thumb, which I am following, is that it can't be for profit. It's the same arrangement that Paramount has with the Star Trek fan series (which I note has an episode up for a Nebula).
As I mentioned in the original post, I actually have done the storyboard for this, created a text script (for use with the Papagayo software and for the voice actors), etc. I am not asking anyone to do this from whole cloth while I sit back and just watch others work. I originally wasn't even going to ask for animation help because, as someone else mentioned, I considered this a labor of love.
However, I thought if there WAS someone (or ones) with some experience who might be interested in lending a hand, then I'd feel silly later on about adding a couple extra months to the overall effort because I was insisting on doing it myself.
For my visual novel (Senior Year, available for free at www.bklovr.com), I ended up doing the character art (and script, and some of the music, and all of the programming) while taking advantage of some free with attribution backgrounds. By doing so I knocked at least a month and possibly two off the timeline.
I apologize if I offended anyone by posting my request here. I tried to make it very clear that I wasn't offering a paid job so that no one who was looking for paid work would have to be distracted by this.
May I respectfully suggest, that either the moderator remove this thread if it is really going to cause a great deal of dissension, or that it be locked and then anyone who is interested can still PM or email me without my having to bother the other readers of this forum.
FWIW,
Ewan
As a moderator, I would be very reluctant to kill this thread or lock it - it hasn't caused offense and it certainly isn't causing dissension or a flame war at the moment. If it turns nasty, then action will be required.EwanG wrote: May I respectfully suggest, that either the moderator remove this thread if it is really going to cause a great deal of dissension, or that it be locked and then anyone who is interested can still PM or email me without my having to bother the other readers of this forum.
Some of the comments made about the copyright issues are valid, as is your response to it. To lock the discussion would prevent any further constructive discussion over dojinshi, parody and other quasi-legal forms of fan-art.
Personally, the observations made about the time-scale are reasonable, 22 minutes by the end of May is a very tall order, requiring considerable dedication and commitment. Since many of the guys who made those comments are full-time animators, their cautions come from a high degree of Anime Studio usage, knowing what practical.
No-one is saying, don't do this. If it a labour of love and you think the original artist isn't going to object/sue or whatever, then all credit to your determination if you complete the job - you have already invested much time and effort in storyboarding and voice recording, which is considerably more than most assistance requesters have done here before. I suspect that is the reason why you didn't get flamed.
Best of luck with the endeavour.
The thread remains live for the time being.
Rhoel
I think Rhoel has summed it up nicely.
I'd also like to offer another dissenting opinon to Vern's (who I respect highly) about doing something that won't have any prospect for pay. I am well reminded of the shot for shot homage made of the Indiana Jones Raider's film -- those kids spent an extraordinary amount of time, effort and creative energy doing something that could have no possible pay outcome. The fame they received is quite beside the point -- the point is it was a true labor of love.
You've all heard the old saying "find something you love to do and you'll never work another day in your life". But it goes even deeper here. Even if the work you produce can't be shown except to friends and family the things you'll learn from doing it will serve you in good stead for that day you *might* want to do something more commercial. And not only that but who says everything we do has to be commercial?
I've done quite a few Incredibles cartoons for my grandsons -- something I can't even share stills of for fear of the Wrath of Disney (and they are extremely wrathful -- where I live they have closed many a day care center for having Goofy or Mickey painted on the walls). But the work I put into them was no less fun, no less fruitful than any animation I've ever done for pay. Indeed, it many cases it was a lot more rewarding.
Follow your heart -- what comes of that can never be bad.
I'd also like to offer another dissenting opinon to Vern's (who I respect highly) about doing something that won't have any prospect for pay. I am well reminded of the shot for shot homage made of the Indiana Jones Raider's film -- those kids spent an extraordinary amount of time, effort and creative energy doing something that could have no possible pay outcome. The fame they received is quite beside the point -- the point is it was a true labor of love.
You've all heard the old saying "find something you love to do and you'll never work another day in your life". But it goes even deeper here. Even if the work you produce can't be shown except to friends and family the things you'll learn from doing it will serve you in good stead for that day you *might* want to do something more commercial. And not only that but who says everything we do has to be commercial?
I've done quite a few Incredibles cartoons for my grandsons -- something I can't even share stills of for fear of the Wrath of Disney (and they are extremely wrathful -- where I live they have closed many a day care center for having Goofy or Mickey painted on the walls). But the work I put into them was no less fun, no less fruitful than any animation I've ever done for pay. Indeed, it many cases it was a lot more rewarding.
Follow your heart -- what comes of that can never be bad.
FWIW, I have now undertaken an effort to see if I can get a quasi-official statement from some of the folks who I had some unofficial discussions with previously. Since the material has never been licensed in the US (as the manga or the previous OVAs covering other material), it is questionable who would even have standing to pursue this. However, I would hate to ask anyone to help with something that would result in their good deed being rewarded in a negative fashion. So I'll see what I can do.Rhoel wrote:Some of the comments made about the copyright issues are valid, as is your response to it. To lock the discussion would prevent any further constructive discussion over dojinshi, parody and other quasi-legal forms of fan-art.
Understood. I have no problem with delaying things if it takes longer. There's no "deadline", but it helps to keep the other folks involved motivated if they at least know approximately when to tell their friends and family to be looking for their project.Rhoel wrote:Personally, the observations made about the time-scale are reasonable, 22 minutes by the end of May is a very tall order, requiring considerable dedication and commitment. Since many of the guys who made those comments are full-time animators, their cautions come from a high degree of Anime Studio usage, knowing what practical.
FWIW,
Ewan