Points move oddly

[slowtiger]

A strange behaviour, indeed. I didn't find an explanation or solution, though. I selected all points in #1, then just clicked with the T tool somewhere and the points jumped. Multiple clicks let them jump again, always same direction and distance.

Best tip: copy all points and put them on a new layer.

I noticed that you had scaled that thigh layer slightly: I recommend to do that in #0 with the S tool only. Also take care to set the layer's origin ( of all body parts) close to the bone's offspring (with the 0 tool).

[Genete]

The problematic layer has a Rotation in the Y axis. So you're editing points in a 3D space. Each time you release the point it is projected in a rotated layer so change its position.

Solution:
At frame 0 select the Rotate Y tool and press reset.



Cheers!
-G

NOTE: R leg layer has a rotation by Y too

[basshole]

Oops. How did I know it would be something stupid on my part like that?

Is there a way to. . .let's see, how do I phrase this. . .make it so the way it looks with the accidental rotation is the way it looks one I take the rotation away? Otherwise I have to retweak everything. I think I must have rotated the points to help me with the perspective, thinking that it wasn't really "rotating" so much as it was skewing to resemble a rotation, so that it was still totally 2D. . Sometimes I forget the program works in 3D space.

[Víctor Paredes]

The problematic layer has a Rotation in the Y axis. So you're editing points in a 3D space. Each time you release the point it is projected in a rotated layer so change its position.

Solution:
At frame 0 select the Rotate Y tool and press reset.

a couple years ago, when i was giving AS classes, a girl presented me a similar problem. points and bones movements didn't pertained. i was several hours trying to understand what happened. it is very tricky (and really tricky to explain to a novice student).

[Rasheed]

So this wasn't a bug after all, I assume?

[basshole]

not in my case, it seems.

[heyvern]

AHA! That would explain why pasting in a new layer "fixes" it. New layer isn't rotated.

There is another way to edit the points without rotating the layer back. Just change the view direction so you are "facing" straight on to the points of that layer rotation.

If the layer is rotated 90 on the y axis then you should view from the left or right.


-vern

[basshole]

nah, 'cause then all my other layers would be "off".

If there's no way to somehow "flatten" the layer so that it looks the same, but is no longer rotated, I'll just have to retweak. No way around it.

It's only a few degrees off axis, probably why I didn't notice it.

[heyvern]

After resetting the rotation you could just do some scaling of the points on the x axis. This would be "close" to the same as rotating the layer.

-vern

[basshole]

Ahh clever. That'll get me back in the neighborhood, but I'll still have to rebuild the condo.

[jaguardigital]

Hi

I know this in an old post, but we are rigging a vector character in Moho 13.5 and the same error (point move oddly) is happenning to us.
Essentially, when we try to transform any vertex, it jumps away from the cursor. In the next video we explain the issue in detail:



We were working on the rig without any problem and it began to fail suddenly.
It is happening only out of the frame 0 of any action.
As suggested in this post, we reset the rotation (and skew, just in case) of the layers, without any positive result
It also happens in the transformation of a whole layer, not only on vertices, as depicted at the end of the video
You can download the .moho file from here: https://mega.nz/file/d9MUxBDL#k2BieX4gF ... ReI6YPyCgI

Any help will be appreciated

Oscar

[hayasidist]

The actions CRotacionX and CRotacionY control the points in layer Mancha ARRIBA and they also shift some layers about. If you change the frame 0 position of a point whose position is controlled by an action you'll usually need to revisit the action(s) to make sure they behave consistently.

Moho uses absolute point / bone / etc positions / rotations etc (and not position relative to a reference frame - often, desirably, frame 0) so if you have a point that you've programmed to go to "place x at frame f" ( e.g. in an action) it will go there even if you've moved it on frame 0...

hope that helps

[Daxel]

Yeah, just moving from frame 0 to 1 on the timeline will reveal a slight change in your character even without any animation on the timeline. That usually happens when you have two different keyframes (states) for the same smarbone angle, because you have a smartbone whose smartaction contains some frame where the smartbone is positioned at the same angle that it is on frame 0, but dictating a different state than the frame 0 has. That is a common problem of smartbones that control two directions, and to avoid it you have to go to your smart action, copy the frame at 0 and paste it at the frame where the smartbone is on the same angle as it is on the 0 frame. To be precise, you can also copy the smartbone keyframe at 0 and paste it at the frame where the smartbone was closer to that position.

There are scripts that are mods of the Transform Points Tool and the Magnet Tool that contain a fix for the jumping points, so that is something that Moho could fix too, but in your case the problem is just because the actions have conflicting keyframes and it's better to fix them.
I tried both mods on your file and the points didn't jump at all even without fixing the actions.

Both by our saviour A. Evseeva:
https://mohoscripts.com/script/ae_transform_points
https://mohoscripts.com/script/ae_magnet

[Greenlaw]

I don't know if this helps you in this situation but in my Smart Bone Actions I always make a keyframe at frame 1 and it needs to be the exact same keyframe at frame 0 (you can copy/paste to be sure.) This is because the animation in a Smart Bone Action starts at frame 1, not 0. If the animation at frame 1 is even slightly different from frame 0, it might account for the pop.

Also, it's good practice to set the keyframe interpolation at frame 1 to Linear and set all the keys in your action after frame 1 to Linear. If you use another mode inside a Smart Bone Action, you should have a pretty good reason for it.

The keyframe at frame 0 should be whichever mode you intend to animate with. If you have Copy Previous Key set as your default Interpolation Mode, whichever mode you set at frame 0 will be the default mode.

Hope this helps.

[jaguardigital]

Thanks everyone for your quick answers to our problem. @Daxel was right, we are beginners and didn't know why the Smart Bone Dial existed in the first place, and we were using just one action for the movement of the head in both directions (left to right) starting from the front pose drawing, but the first keyframe of the action corresponded to the left pose.

We began with a new Smart Bone Dial, starting from the front pose drawing again. In each one of the 2 actions created by the dial, we didn't inserted any keyframe at frame 1 and only inserted a keyframe at the last frame. Altough the plugins suggested by @Daxel fixed the jumping vertices error, it was surely better to clean the actions' keyframes.

We didn't find any information about this error, it would be nice if the Make Smart Bone Dial function is described in detail in the Moho manual, explaining its correct workflow to new users.

We are on the road again