Hardest animation task?

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:14 am

I thought it would be interesting to start a thread about some of the most difficult animation tasks. I think there are already plenty of options for doing head turns, but I'd like to hear about other tasks.

For example, awhile back someone asked about animating shoelaces being tied. Turns out that there is an awful lot of interaction involved in two laces intertwining.

So what's the hardest animation task you can think of? And by all means, share you're favorite solution, if you have one.

DK · Post by DK » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:20 am

I know you meant tasks as in animation tasks synthsin75 but I have to say this...The hardest task in animation I have had is getting a broadcaster interested in a concept. I speak to lots of other animators and they all are in the same boat. I've been animating for over 10 years now and still not been able to get a good bite at the series cherry! The hard lessons I have learned is that it's so easy for someone to say yes they are interested in seeing a pilot. Don't be sucked in by this! There is a dusty shelf nearby full of pilots.
Had tons of animation on TV over the years but it's all been commercially generated work.

Love to hear any solutions.

Cheers
D.K

DarthFurby · Post by **DarthFurby** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:25 am

I have a hard time with acting. Need to find a good book.

Post by **Víctor Paredes** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:35 am

animate ropes. it's always hard and never can get nice movements. it's difficult to maintain the mass and the long. maybe it could be easier with some script.

maybe a script which don't let you move a point more distance than which have with the next point. humm... it could be like a bones chain, but with points... I have to think, maybe some of the kind scripters could write something like that.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:40 am

Specifically with 2D and AS...

Animating two separate characters that interact with each other. Right now the only way to do this is by putting both characters into one bone layer... this is workable but can become extremely complex and hard to work with.

Animated layer order has streamlined this process but it is still very difficult.

Having a "virtual" layer order as a "global" property (independent of group layers) would solve that.

------

p.s. It's hard in 3D software as well but for an entirely different reason. It's difficult to keep 3D characters from sticking a hand into another characters brain if you aren't paying attention. The medical insurance alone for that type of thing is probably what makes 3D animation so expensive.

-vern

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:22 am

Acting is the hard part, I'd say, especially if you try to stay apart from standard expressions and formulas.

As to rope: you can't animate really good what you don't understand. Take a sailing course, or, for those who like that, a bondage workshop, something where you really have to deal with lots of rope. Once you can tie a complicated knot with your hands beind your back you're prepared to animate it.

Vern: Ouch!

knunk · Post by **knunk** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:34 am

Theres animation and theres character animation. Its easy peasy bunging down all the old cliches and calling it animation. Its another matter to get that little spark of life in the eye. The impression of thought. I don't mean a finger to the bottom lip and a look to the sky. Something deeper something that comes from the soul. You know it when you see it. It can come over in just one drawing.

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:44 pm

Well I really meant specific tasks, but that's cool.

Selgin, what kind of motion are you trying to get with your ropes?

Vern, I know it wouldn't help much, but I use meshinstance. That way I can keep my skeletons separate. If you have any bone motion and interaction with the scenery, you have the same trouble as character interaction. (Needing to put it all in one bone layer) Meshinstance allows me to make a composite 'sorting' group, but you do have to deal with animating on several different bone layers.

Acting is really too nebulous of a task to really address, but if anyone has any pointers...

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:20 pm

DANG! MESHINSTANCE!

Sorry, my brain must have slipped a cog. That would be the perfect solution for two interacting characters! And you WANT to work on two different bone layers. Plus you still have animated layer order with the instances.

This is okay for all the "clutter" because you can close the bone layers for the "master" layers. All the "action" happens in the duplicate layers.

Thanks Synth. Great tip.

-vern

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:59 pm

Thanks Synth. Great tip.

That's why I started this thread. I'm sure others have tricks and ideas for some of these hard tasks. And I'm sure there are plenty more of them.

Like limb foreshortening. I still haven't come across a good solution for limb foreshortening. What I'm looking to do is foreshorten through a dead-on view. I've made some progress, but not there yet.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:27 pm

Limb foreshortening:

You've tried just scaling the bone right?

When just regular bone scaling doesn't work I use a series of bones along the main bone. Imagine say the forearm bone. When you scale it it only scales in one direction which doesn't quite do it for some foreshortening tasks.

So imagine that forearm bone with a series of bones along the length "sticking" straight out at 90º to the bone. I put scale constraints to the forearm at different values to "fatten" the arm as it points towards the view.

This doesn't work so well when pointing AWAY from the camera or view. But it's pretty convincing.

-vern

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:37 pm

Thanks Vern! That does sound like a good idea. If my current ideas fall through, I'll definitely try my hand at that. Right now I'm using more shapes rather than more bones.

...But now that I think of it a bit, I may have to jump on your suggestion. I've been having trouble with the notion of the foreshortening pulling the limb away from its control bone, but your idea wouldn't do that.

Great stuff, thanks.

Now what about foreshortening a hand, with the fingers pointing toward the camera, as it moves from down to up? That sounds like a nightmare. I've been toying with the idea of interspersing some frame-by-frame in a switch layer for tasks like that.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:50 pm

If you carefully apply different scale constraint values to each finger bone (if you use finger bones) you can do a somewhat descent foreshortening of fingers.

It isn't perfect but gets pretty close.

-vern

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:59 pm

Yeah but then you lose your ability to manually manipulate the constrained bones. (One of your better feature requests)

But enough for now, I think I'm starting to recover from AS forum withdrawal.

madrobot · Post by **madrobot** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:27 am

You might be surprised how effective simply scaling the armn bone can be.

Give it a try before going in an scaling the width along the arm, because I found it reads pretty well.